BusTalk

[Cyberider]

The IRT cars used on the BMT certainly had a "distinctive" appearance to make it feasible. Also interesting was the planned extension of the SIRT to Brooklyn and on in to Manhattan 100 years ago. What caused the plan to be terminated and would it be any more feasible today than it was then?

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Cyberider:

For all of the media hoopla and newspaper coverage at that time (1925), as well as strong public support, the SIRT/BMT connection simply "died on the table".

From what I have read, it was a heady combination of warring political factions and, of course, much bickering over who was going to "foot the bill".

Back in the long-ago days of rolling stock on the subways with railfan wimdows, I was able several times) to see the never-ised bellmouth openings that would have connected to the new tubes under the Narrows to Staten Island.

Long ago, I brought up the subject here of "swapping" train crews, if the new connection has been built.

Would SIRT motorman operate the trains all the way into Manhattan?

Or, what they have handed the train over to BMT crews at 59th Street? (Brooklyn)

Over the years, talk of reviving the idea of a subway/Staten Island link is revived every so often, but, in all probability, Staten Island will always remain the lone borough with any subway connection..............

"NYO"

["RIDE THE RAPID"]

[Cyberider]

Lots of bureaucracy and politics even back then. It's a wonder as much got built as it did but maybe the private companies can be thanked for that. Whole systems were built in far less time than a few miles of the Second Ave. Subway. I've seen signs that the NYCTA posted just prior to the closing of the Third Ave. Elevated in Manhattan. A lifetime has passed and the "promise" still not fulfilled. I guess that says how much chance there is of a one-ride trip from SI to Manhattan.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Cyberider:

Many railfans today refer to the SAS as "The Second avenue STUBway", and, with good reason!

The 3rd Avenue El in Manhattan closed in 1955 (the Bronx section remained in service until 1973, oddly enough)

How ironic, that, as the IND's 6th Avenue Subway was being built (opened 1940) the IRT's 6th Avenue El was still running, and would not be abandoned until AFTER the new IND subway opened.

There have been many proposals for the SAS over the decades, including one where the new subway would eventually connect to what is now the (IRT) Dyre Avenue line (ex-NYW&B) in the Bronx.

The sleek new BUDD-built 'R-11" cars (1949) were to be previews of a large fleet of new cars to equip the new SAS; only a small group of these shiny new cars were built, however; they were later rebuilt as "R-34s", and ran until the mid-1970s, primarily on the Franklin Avenue shuttle.

Only one of these distinctive cars survives today..........

"NYO"

["BUDD"}

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Links of interest......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway (interesting photos, plans, etc.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_expansion_of_the_New_York_City_Subway

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

The flashy, sleek and modernistic "R-11" ("R-34"), a subway car indeed ahead of its time.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75628

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24383

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?130217

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?47346

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["1 BRIGHTON BEACH"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Ut is also worth remembering that, in 1956, IND subway trains began running out to the Rockaways, over what had been a former LIRR line.

Recall, the City of New York took over the abandoned NYW&B row in the Bronx, and converting it for third-rail rapid transit operation.

The IND's Rockaway line also represents a former heavy-duty electrified rail line being converted for rapid transit use.

For a number of years, the Rockaway line was operated as the city's FOURTH subway division; in fact, at one time, train crews were "swapped" at Euclid Avenue, for another crew that would take the train the rest of the way out to the Rockaways.........

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IND_Rockaway_Line

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IND_Fulton_Street_Line

["HH"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

"ROCKAWAY, HERE WE COME!".........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75677

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?144535

(courtesy: nyvcsubway.org)

["6837"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Nostalgia.........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?12987 (this hulking, fearsome monster was built for the BMT in 1927 as a signal supply car)

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?80157 (an interesting "up front" comparison between a "Slant" R-40 and a prewar IND car; note prewar car is incorrectly signed for the "GG")

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?122493 (a formidable "SBK" steeplecab hauling a train of "dead" Standards on a long-ago fan trip)

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?158198 (another "SBK" steeplecab)

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1989 (a train od prewar IND cars, seen here awaiting the next outbound run; the "HH" designation was originally used by the Court-Street shuttle, which operated between 1936 and 1946)

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["HH ROCKAWAY PARK"]

[Cyberider]

Thanks for all info, NYO. The R-11's were very attractive. Too bad there weren't more.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

[Cyberider]

I think I read that the R-11's made up the "Million Dollar Train." I wonder if we've reached the "Million Dollar Car" with some of the recent not nearly so attractive subway cars?