BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

Bill D.,

Interesting pictures of the ACF's in action.

One technical note about the ACF's and their Hall Scott amidships engines;

If you'll note, all ACF's of the era used frontal radiators for engine cooling which lead a lot of people including this writer to originally believe that they were of COE design.

Conversely, the Twins that I have illustrated cool from vented lower panels between the front and rear wheels - I would think that the ACF method was far more efficient.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY

5007

[Mr. Linsky]

Pictured below in what appears to be a factory photo is fleet # 922 - a 1939 ACF Model 31-S transit and one of 10 (ser#'s 034 to 043) such buses delivered to the Montreal Transportation Commission in October of that year.

Unfortunately, ACF prewar production records are scant.

However, general details on this era of ACF's has been discussed and illustrated in ealier segments of this forum.

Photo courtesy of MTC archives.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY

[Mr. Linsky]

Pictured below is fleet # 3100 – a 1935 Mack Model 6-CQ-4S. (All Service Vehicle) and a one of a kind demonstrator operating for Public Service Coordinated Transport of New Jersey and delivered to the property in the fall of that year.

Public Service, an innovator in their own right, began to develop the ‘All Service Vehicle’ concept as a gas/electric bus with trolley poles and contactor equipment in late 1933.

This configuration, which was legally considered a streetcar and therefore immune to municipal consents required of motor buses in New Jersey, offered standard bus flexibility in obstacle avoidance, and eliminated the need for investment in extensive track and internal wiring at car barns.

As a bidder for an expected large number of units, Mack built the ASV sample at a cost of over $13,000 adding the ‘4S’ designation and special equipment to a stock 35 passenger CQ but never captured the PS order.

Just as Greyhound had committed to Yellow Coach early on, so did Public Service and 356 of Yellow’s Model 729 (ASV) coaches were delivered to the New Jersey company between 1935 and 1938.

However, Mack did see success in the field building almost 300 ASV’s for eleven different operators nationwide in that same time frame.

Some interesting facts about early trolley coaches; to reduce the chances of severe shock to passengers, doors and interior passenger rails where fashioned of wood and all roof mounted electrical equipment was heavily insulated.

Additionally, any aluminum frame and roof supports for the pole structure were changed to steel.

The trolley bus idea caught on rapidly and is still a viable alternative with modern versions in heavy use especially in hilly cities such as San Francisco.

Photo courtesy of The Bus Spot with additional information furnished by the Motor Bus Society.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY

5256

[Mr. Linsky]

Here's another closer view of PSNJ # 3100 above.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY

[Mr. Linsky]

And pictured below is the winner of the bidding war between Mack and Yellow Coach for delivery of 356 All Service (gas/electric) Vehicles to Public Service Coordinated Transport of New Jersey between 1935 and 1938.

Shown is fleet # 9249 (a 1936 Yellow Model 729ASV) at PSNJ's Elizabeth Garage in January of 1937.

The familiar 'Red Wings' logo that eventually took its place below the windshield of all PSNJ buses was still in development at the time this photo was taken.

Photo courtesy of the Motor Bus Society collection.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY

5391

[Mr. Linsky]

The very unusual bus pictured below, which could be considered a forerunner of the GM Scenicruiser, was custom built for Pickwick Greyhound’s Missouri operation with 11 being delivered in June and July of 1930.

Five of these ‘Pickwick Duplex’ coaches came equipped with powerful Sterling ‘Petrel’ engines while the remaining six sported standard Hall Scott ‘pan cake’ power plants.

Three buses were assigned to Denver-Salt Lake City runs with the rest servicing Kansas City-St. Louis routes.

However, the Missouri operation came to an abrupt end in October of the same year upon a state crack down on both overweight and oversized buses and trucks.

Considered advanced in design at the time, the Duplex’s boasted convertible sleeper berths and lavatory facilities on the lower level.

The Pickwick Stage System, which was the largest intercity bus company in the country at one time, began operation in 1912 with a single touring car servicing the Imperial Valley from the old Pickwick Theater in San Diego, California.

The Pickwick Corporation also manufactured most of its own buses until its merger with Greyhound in March of 1928 at which time the name ‘Pickwick-Greyhound Lines’ first appeared.

With Greyhound’s already close ties to Yellow Coach most post merger new bus orders began to arrive from the Yellow factory.

Pictured below is Pickwick Greyhound #900 at a stop near Columbia Missouri in September of 1930.

Photo credit to Otto C. Perry and the Motor Bus Society archive.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY

5547

[Bill D]

Very interesting bus, Mr. Linsky!

Judging by the gentlemen standing next to the bus, it appears that the vehicle is not much taller than a typical OTR coach, but with that tall grill on the front and the high placement of the windshield, it certainly looks to be much larger.

Bill

[Bill D]

This bus, while common for Greyhound, was a rarity for CR&L. The PD-3751 was inherited in 1969, when CR&L bought out the Cooke Street bus company, one of the small independent operators in Waterbury.



Photo courtesy of John Sullivan and Alan Walker of the Connecticut Motor Coach Museum.

Bill

[Mr. Linsky]

Bill D,

In selecting the GM PD 3751 that you show above, you’ve probably picked out the most famous and recognizable bus ever built with the hands of both GM engineers and Greyhound designers.

The ‘Silversides’ (nicknamed for it’s ‘washboard’ aluminum siding), had its beginnings on a drawing board (along with at least five other versions of the design submitted by Greyhound) at Yellow Coach in 1938.

A prototype designated as a 1206 (a 33 foot 37 passenger bus) was finally finished (very much in the form pictured) and was displayed in the Greyhound Exhibition at the New York World’s Fair in 1940 – it is not known whether that particular specimen ever actually ran or what its final disposition was.

Two models, the 3701 and the 4101 (33 and 35 feet long respectively) were immediately put into production for exclusive use by Greyhound and their affiliates, and a total of 590 were built before the war.

Due to the wide popularity and customer acceptance of the ‘Silversides’ model, Greyhound tabled ideas of a new postwar line and instead updated the 3701’s and 4101’s and designated them as PD 3751’s and 4151’s (the latter only being produced in 1948).

Innovations included a more powerful and relocated air conditioner, steps that extended to meet the curb upon door openings and, a vacuum actuated column shifter for smoother gear transfer.

In all, 2,000 post war units were produced in a 35 foot version through 1948 and, upon retirement from Greyhound, most were sold off to private operators.

Pictured below in order are an artists rendering of a PD 3751, an interior shot, a Greyhound ad and a photo taken from Penny Marshall’s Warner Brothers film starring Tom Hanks entitled ‘A League of Their Own’.

A personal word; as a broker of vintage vehicles to the motion picture and television industry, the writer was instrumental in finding one of the three 3751’s used in the referenced film.

The bus, which was disheveled and laying in a lot under an Oakland California freeway, was shipped to a sound studio in Evansville Indiana, cut into thirds and mounted on dollies for use in interior shots.

Photos courtesy of the ‘Silversides’ website.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Jamaica, NY

5762

[Mr. Linsky]

Pictured below is a company photo of fleet # 361 (ser# 026) – a 1952 GM TDH 5104 and one of 15 (351 to 365) operating for Green Bus Lines, Inc., of Jamaica, New York.

Passenger traffic along with maintenance expenses began to rise in the early fifties and it was realized that the long time standard 35 foot 44 passenger bus was no longer sufficient and economical enough to carry the added loads.

However, because New York operators in particular could not use coaches of 102 inch widths, GM designed the 40 foot 5104 in a 96 inch version.

While the 40 foot long 51 passenger GM transit bus was no stranger to the New York metro area with 400 5101’s operating for the City of New York Board of Transportation as early as 1948, it was a revolution for local private operators with the bulk of the 162 manufactured going to Green Bus Lines, Triboro Coach, Queens/Nassau, Fifth Avenue Coach and Surface Transportation.

Principally, a stretched 4509 with the same wheelbase, the extra length could be seen in the longer rear overhang and the differing window configuration.

The 5104 was among the last of the ‘sprung’ suspension (pre air suspension) models but did have an improved version of the Hydraulic or ‘VH’ transmission and a more responsive steering gear.

The picture below (with passenger elbows protruding from the windows) also demonstrates why many operators opted for passenger safety half sashes.

Photo courtesy of Green Line archives.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

6026

[Bill D]

Mr. Linsky,

While Connecticut Company decided that the 40' bus (TDH-5105) would be practical for their use, CR&L decided to stay with 35' models. Narrow streets and tight turns in the cities in which they operated was probably a deciding factor.

Here is a group photo of CR&L's first air suspension equipped GMs, taken at Waterbury. These were TDH-4512's, built in 1953.

Bill


Photo courtesy of John Sullivan and Alan Walker of the Connecticut Motor Coach Museum.

[Mr. Linsky]

Bill D.,

Interesting that you should feature CR&L's GM TDH 4512's because other than the 5105's, they were without doubt the most popular transit buses ever built with a total of 3263 reaching virtually every major (and many minor) properties in the U.S.

CR&L's deliveries came in four shipments as follows;

Fleet# 636 to 648 (ser# 0235 to 0247) Delivered November 1953
Fleet# 649 to 650 (ser# 1209 & 1210) Delivered November 1955
Fleet# 651 to 656 (ser# 1355 to 1360) Delivered November 1955
Fleet# 657 to 672 (ser# 2709 to 2724) Delivered June 1958

The 35 foot 44 passenger GM TDH 4512 was the last heavy duty 'old look' transit bus of that length to come from Pontiac and was the first to introduce 'air suspension ride' upon its debut in 1953.

While the 4512's were basically updates of the popular 4509's there was something about them that stood out.

I drove many and particularly liked the 'snap up' front ventilator hatches over the windshield, the very bright and large standard signal lights and the fact that someone at GM with an eye for decor influenced the very cheerful interior treatments.

Production of the 4512 model ended in 1959.

Pictured below is fleet # 113 - a GM TDH 4512 and one of 15 (101 to 115) operating for Green Bus Lines of Jamaica, New York and delivered in June of 1954.

Note that some operators opted for a second set of decorative stainless steel bars under the windshield.

Photo borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

6173

[Mr. Linsky]

Pictured below is ex Green Line # 112 (1954 GM TDH 4512) in its second life operating as #7 for Hoboken Transportation Company of Hoboken New Jersey.

Notice that there appears to be fresh paint adjustment to the front end around the windshield area, and that the floor vents between the headlights have been removed which leads me to believe that there could have been major front end damage shortly before the photo was taken.

Photo borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

6286

[Safety2]

To Mr. Linsky & Bill D:

I could hardly contain my joy when I saw the pix from CR&L Lines. I grew up in Fairfield, CT., less than 1/4-mile from the Bridgeport city line. My Mom & Dad both worked at the Bridgeport garage before I was born. I grew up knowing a lot of the drivers, including the 2 women drivers (Mary & Hermione). Mary was a fixture on the Route 8 (Main Street) run for years. There were 3 buses that I could ride downtown - Route 18 (Melville Avenue) went right in front of the house, Route 9 (Stratfield) was 1/4-mile away, & Route 1 (Tunxis Hill) was 1/2-mile away. The Mack CQs were the cornerstone of Route 18 for many moons. Maybe once per year, Mom & I would take the Route 11 (Norwalk) down just for the heck of it, have lunch at Woolworth's, & then stop into the Norwalk garage (10 Wall Street). We had relatives in Waterbury, so we'd take the Inter-City coach to the Green in downtown Waterbury & take the CR&L bus signed for Overlook. Naturally, there was always time to go to 750(?) West Main Street to check on "my buses". Somebody was always willing to show us around, especially anything new & the Paint Shop. After CR&L went belly-up, I drove for Stratford Bus Lines, using several of my childhood "friends".

That's enough for now. Y'all can wake up again.

RKD***

[Mr. Linsky]

Safety 2,

I know I speak for Bill as well when I say 'happy to oblige', and I'm certain there will be more coming from CR&L (there will be, won't there Bill?).

I remember the CR&L's clearly from my travels up through Connecticut in the days of yore and I was just as happy to participate in their resurrection here on BusTalkIII.

BTW; let me take this opportunity to welcome you to our forums and tell you that we look forward to your valuable contributions.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY