BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's one for those more in the know than I......

Years ago, when Old Looks (transits) still ran in my area of northern New Jersey, I can distinctly remember SOME Old Looks making a "peculiar" sound when they slowed down either for a stop or for a red light.

This sound is best described as a "short, sharp sneeze", followed by a sort of loud "clunk".

I especially remember this when some coaches were getting a bit "long in the tooth", in later years.

Does anyone else recall this sound?

Again, I never heard this sound on any suburban buses.

Appreciate any info....thank you in advance.....

"NYO"

[Mr. Linsky]

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629,

As an Old Look driver of yore, I can sure tell you what I think you heard;

It was the clunking (and sometimes, very loud) of the hydraulic transmission dropping back down to low gear which occurred at about 15 MPH or so.

It was particularly noticeable on the 4506 models with the open or meshed screens on the engine hatches.

This was a hydraulic (oil) system so there would have been no air gush associated with it.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Mr. "L":

I could have bet my last dollar that you would come to the rescue!

Appreciate this interesting little bit of knowledge; now, at least, I KNOW what I was listening to, back in the day........

Thanks again!

"NYO"

[scedman]

The pre-1959 old looks certainly had and air/hydraulic shifting system. First gear was all hydraulic, then an air cylinder simultaneously cut power to the engine and pushed a shifting cylinder over so that second gear (direct) could be selected at 15 to 25 mph depending upon the setting

When decelerating, the air cylinder pushed the transmission selector back into hydraulic drive at the same 15 to 25 mph. It was generally silent when new, but over time leaks in the system would result in louder and louder air exhaust sounds.

The fishbowls did not utilize air cylinders and shifted from hydraulic to direct under power.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

[traildriver]

One thing I remember about the Old Look's, was the difficulty the driver's seemed to have shifting them into reverse at times. Some of them sounded like the gears were grinding like those of manual transmission...

[Mr. Linsky]

traildriver,

You're absolutely right and it was most prevalent on GM's 4506's and 4507's.

At times, there was no way to get these buses into reverse except to shut the engine down and restart them in reverse.

If there ever was a neutral safety switch originally, it must have been neutralized for this purpose.

From the 4509 forward, the transmission was different and I remember no problems with those buses.

Nice to hear from you.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[JimmiB]

Reading had one route where you had to back around the corner to turn around at the end of the line. I don't think I ever got in reverse without shutting down and restarting in reverse.
Some of the oldest ones I drove could almost give you whiplash when they shifted.

[Cyberider]

I miss the clunk! (As well as the other sights, sounds, and smells associated with these buses.)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Cyberider:

Even with your eyes closed, it was easy to distinguish a Old Look TDH from a TDM, because, with the TDM, the driver would have to manually shift gears ("using the stick")

Though a number of the Old Look suburbans I grew up with were TDHs, quite a few were TDM.

When at speed, the knowledgeable passenger could easily tell that he was riding on either a TDH or a TDM.

The 4104s also had that distinctive "Gee-Em" sound that so many of us older fellows thrilled to, way back in the day.....I sure miss those days, AND those buses!

"NYO"

["22 JERSEY CITY"]

[Cyberider]

NYO:

Yep, pretty easy to hear and feel the difference between a TDH and a TDM, especially in later days with inexperienced drivers! (Grind, grind) Actually, I enjoyed the TDH's more, especially "The Shift."

The GM 2-cycle Diesel engine sounded lovely and did the job, even with just 2 gears. They were the premier bus engine since they were used in so many manufacturer's buses in addition to the GM/Yellows.

The "straight" engines in the Old Looks sounded different than the "Vee" engines in the New Looks and the discerning ear could immediately hear the difference. Loved the sound of the 6-71's! I miss them, too.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Cyberider:

Despite their overall solid construction and power plants, the Old Looks (especially the TDMs) sounded more "refined" than the MACKS, WHITES, and ACF-BRILLS which I knew so well growing up.

These big buses not only LOOKED tough, but SOUNDED tough!!!

You just haven't lived until you've heard a MACK or a WHITE trying to climb ANY sort of grade; they even SOUNDED mean as all heck!

The deep, bass growl of the ACF-BRILL C-44 suburbans I grew up BOOMED and GROWLED the the tough customers they were; these classic buses were amomg the most handsome on the roads, back then!

Man, do I STILL miss 'em, nearly 60 years later...............

"NYO"

["97 PATERSON"]

[Cyberider]

NYO:

I think the main reason that the GM Diesels sounded smoother and more refined was that they were 2-cycle engines whereas the Macks, Whites, etc. were 4-cycle. Every stroke was a power stroke in a 2-cycle but only every other stroke was a power stroke in the 4-cycle engines. Plus, the GM's ran at a higher RPM than the others.

I've never had the pleasure of living where Macks, Whites, and ACFs ran but when I lived in LA for a year in the early 70's, they had some Flxible suburbans with Cummins V-8 Diesel engines and they had that tough, mean sound you were describing, being 4-cycle engines. Of course, nothing could beat the Whites and Macks for being "mean" looking buses. The Whites looked like they were frowning!

I'm sure it was interesting to live in an area where there were a lot of different brands of buses in the old days. Now they all look like boxes and sound like garbage trucks, as Mr. Linsky used to describe them.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Cyberrider:

In my area of northern NJ (minutes from Manhattan!), the old, long-gone "indy" outfits were running true "antiques" well into the 1960s.

It was not until the first Fishbowls began to arrive about 1966/1967 that the very oldest, non-GM buses began to vanish.

Some companies were still rostering mid-late 1930s TWIN COACHES and MACKS!!

I also well recall REOS and FITZJOHNS; two models of WHITES were commonplace in my area (798s and 1150s)

There were also "C-45/47/50" MACKS until about 1967.

The ACF-BRILL C-44 suburbans I knew best growing up were those operated by "INTER-CITY" and "DE CAMP".

Today, those "indie" companies are looooong gone; the NJT buses are vastly overshadowed by hoardes of broken down "dollar vans" (I HATE these!)

What buses there are now, are all either rolling milk cartons or giant, mutated caterpillars.........no, it just ain't the same.

I may be nearing 70, but at least I have a ton of fond memories of classic, vintage buses!

Ahhhh, those were the days!

"NYO"

["BERGEN AVENUE LOCAL"]

[Cyberider]

NYO:

You were indeed lucky to live where you did when you did to experience that fantastic variety of buses. I can only look at photos and imagine how it was. One that sticks in my mind was an independent called Second Ave. and Broadway, or something like that. Red and cream buses, mostly Macks. There were some photos I could hardly believe because the buses looked so decrepit!

I was born in Cleveland, probably a couple of years before you. They had plenty of GM Old Looks but they also had some postwar Twins which stuck in my mind because of the shape of the back windows. When we moved to Phoenix in 1956, Phoenix also had a few of those Twins but mostly GM Old Looks. Until I spent the year in LA, my bus riding was almost completely on GM Old and New Looks.

This brings back a lot of fond memories but I feel like I've missed out on a lot compared to you.