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Old Look Twilight on 5th Avenue
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 13680
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:30 pm    Post subject: Old Look Twilight on 5th Avenue Reply with quote

Fellows:

In what year did the last Old Looks vanish from Fifth Avenue? (I'm guessing late 1960's)

Were only MaBSTOA Old Looks running on 5th at the last, or were there also some "Tee-Yay" buses?

Appreciate input, as always.......

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 54
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly the 1958-59 'Old Looks' built for FACL last saw service along Fifth Avenue in 1970. A few more were still operating in the Bronx (including the 1959 ST GM Old Looks), but after '70 many were consigned to outer-borough 'Tee-Yay' service in Brooklyn through 1972-73.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Thanks for the info; always much appreciated. Wink

Regarding Old Looks on 5th,, the buses that first come into my mind were the the unique 5106's ("the buses with the sign that sticks out in the front") Wink

They were always my favorite "Noo Yawk" Old Look; with SURFACE, the handsome MACKS with the fancy "RIDE THE SURFACE WAY" emblazoned above the windows, still occupy a warm spot in my heart today...... Very Happy

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

......in another thread, we'd been discussing double-deckers on 5th Avenue; IMHO, had WW2 not intervened, FACCo would have probably retired its entire double-deck fleet much earlier than they did.

As the Company was already purchasing single-deck YELLOW 740's by the late 1930's, I wonder why FACCo even bothered to purchase NEW double-deckers, the "Queen Mary"-types.

Recall, too, the one-of-a-kind TD-5501 (1940), which was intended to replace all double-deck buses........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....had FACCo achieved an all-single deck fleet by the 1940's, I would imagine that there would have been quite of bit of money saved, not only with conductors a thing of the past, but, also, operating only the more economical single-deck coaches.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When these nostalgic photos were snapped on 5th Avenue in 1970, the era of Old Looks serving that fabled thoroughfare was rapidly fading......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153797

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153788

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When these timeless photos were taken in the 1950's, the Old Look era was in full swing on Fifth Avenue.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156382

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156383

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154385

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new era in bus transportation of Fifth Avenue was heralded by the arrival of such sleek, stylish, and modern buses as #1707.

"Style" was indeed the byword, for both buses and ladies, once upon a long-gone yesterday.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154382

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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Q65A



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall seeing those FACCO Old Looks working on the B46 (around 1969?)
I always wondered about that protruding front destination sign.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q65A wrote:
I recall seeing those FACCO Old Looks working on the B46 (around 1969?)
I always wondered about that protruding front destination sign.


Well over 50 years ago, I always got Mom to wait on 5th Avenue until one of "the buses with the sign that sticks out in the front" approached, to go for a jaunt! Very Happy

Too bad not one of these unique buses was preserved; they were also unique in that they were the first NYC buses to have florescent tubes lighting the front sign box.

I STILL miss those buses today.....

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another classic example of "Fifth Avenue Style"......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154378

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
A new era in bus transportation of Fifth Avenue was heralded by the arrival of such sleek, stylish, and modern buses as #1707.

"Style" was indeed the byword, for both buses and ladies, once upon a long-gone yesterday.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154382

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

Although that was actually allotted for the Madison Avenue Coach subsidiary of NYCO which was then an "affiliate" of FACCo. (Byzantine, no?) Looks like this was on the Fourth and Madison Avenues '1' route which is, operationally, today's M1 (which makes their current southbound route along Fifth Avenue between 139th and 8th Streets, given that it travels along the same path as the old FACCo #1 which was of no relation, that much more ironic).
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

As always, I greatly appreciate your always interesting and detailed historical tidbits! Wink

Speaking of the Old Looks on 5th Avenue, I've quite often wondered why FACCo did not purchase GMC buses exclusively after the War, instead of also purchasing the MACKS and, also, the few WHITE 1150-D-7's (these latter buses were sold to Memphis)

Also:

Was there every any talk or proposals to extend FACCo service down to South Ferry? (I know NYRys streetcars, and, later, NYO buses, served the South Ferry area)

Another thought I've studied on was why, when FACCo operated buses into Queens, why there was no service into Brooklyn?

Was this due to the numerous streetcar, El and subway lines that already connected Manhattan to Brooklyn?

Or, were politics involved?

In the Ogden book, there is mention of one branch of the #5 running to the Wanamaker Terminal; did "Tee-Yay" buses ever use this "terminal" in later years?

I know that, back in the day, the BMT's 8th St. station had entrances from its platforms to the basement of the old Wanamaker's Department Store, that perished in a massive blaze in the summer of 1956 (thankfully, the store had already been closed for some time)

This fire severely impacted IRT and BMT subway service for some days; it would seem that area buses would also have been rerouted past the area.......

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Speaking of the Old Looks on 5th Avenue, I've quite often wondered why FACCo did not purchase GMC buses exclusively after the War, instead of also purchasing the MACKS and, also, the few WHITE 1150-D-7's (these latter buses were sold to Memphis)

Also:

Was there every any talk or proposals to extend FACCo service down to South Ferry? (I know NYRys streetcars, and, later, NYO buses, served the South Ferry area)

Another thought I've studied on was why, when FACCo operated buses into Queens, why there was no service into Brooklyn?

Was this due to the numerous streetcar, El and subway lines that already connected Manhattan to Brooklyn?

Or, were politics involved?

In the Ogden book, there is mention of one branch of the #5 running to the Wanamaker Terminal; did "Tee-Yay" buses ever use this "terminal" in later years?

I know that, back in the day, the BMT's 8th St. station had entrances from its platforms to the basement of the old Wanamaker's Department Store, that perished in a massive blaze in the summer of 1956 (thankfully, the store had already been closed for some time)

This fire severely impacted IRT and BMT subway service for some days; it would seem that area buses would also have been rerouted past the area.......

The period when FACCo acquired Macks and Whites, was when GM's only 40-foot long bus was 102" wide which fell afoul of New York laws mandating maximum 96" at the time - that would have been 1951-52. (This was partly what led to GM coming up with the TDH-5104.) Their last 35' long GM Old Look buses were made in '50.

And why FACCo never ventured into other boroughs aside from Queens, no doubt politics had to have played some role. They only ventured into the Bronx for nearly 4 years in the 1920's, but then the City allotted those (Bx-1 and Bx-2) and other routes to Surface Transportation Corp. And why they went into Queens was no doubt due to financial interests connected with a real-estate development going up around where the buses would terminate over there, in short there was no altruism there.

And the Wanamaker fire . . . no doubt this was after NYCO as a corporation was rebranded as Fifth Avenue Coach Lines, Inc., no? Thus NYCO lines (such as 1 and 2) would have had 'FACL' brandings on each side of the bus by then, just as the FACCo routes.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

As always, greatly appreciate your time for posting more interesting historical information.

You mentioned FACCo briefly serving the Bronx; that would have been Route #12, which only operated between 1924 and 1928 (there is a photo of a bus on this short-lived line in the Ogden book)

The Wanamaker department store closed in late 1954, and, as I noted previously, was destroyed in a massive blaze in July, 1956.

I had the feeling that politics played a role in FACCo's not serving Brooklyn (and, very briefly, the Bronx)

Back in the day, I am quite sure that, in addition to the subway, the buses also hauled more than a few dedicated bargain hunters down to S. Kliens (the multi-level bargain emporium), on 14th St......


"NYO"
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