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Farewell to Metro North West-of-Hudson rail service?
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Hmmm...the only semblance of baggage "service" I can recall on the NY subways, was the luggage racks installed on the "JFK Express"....of course that was self-service...nothing checked... Wink


traildriver:

On the early London tubes, mail was also carried, along with checked luggage.

The H&M's short-lived baggage service was short-lived, and, of course, was unique among American rapid transit lines of that era.

Interestingly enough, Chicago, until the early 1930's, once had hearse cars on the "L"; though streetcar hearses were quite commonplace in many cities around the country, early in the 20th century, Chicago was the only city to offer hearse service on a rapid transit line.

One of these cars, after funeral car service ended, was converted into a medical examination car, and served the CRT/CTA, CA&E, and the CNS&M in this capacity, into the 1950's.......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See also:

https://chicagoandcookcountycemeteries.com/2017/08/22/funeral-trains-serving-the-cemeteries/
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the H&M/PATH........

On this day in 1939, the H&M closed its 28th St. station, and opened its new 33rd St. terminal (the old terminal had been demolished to make way for the IND's new 6th Avenue line)

Interestingly, the new 33rd St. station was/is located at 32nd St., but the old name was retained for the sake of convenience.

It is also interesting to note that the original 33rd St. terminal was furnished with a mezzanine level, with the trains one level below.

The station also featured ornate columns and arched ceilings, similar to ERIE (Pavonia) and Hoboken.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Mail By (underground) Rail" in London; read of this historic (ind most interesting), little-know "tube" railway in London, that carried the mail for decades......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Post_Office_Railway

www.postalmuseum.org/discover/attractions/mail-rail
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Chicago, freight (and, also, for a brief time, mail) once was transported beneath the traffic-clogged streets, via a complex network of tiny tunnels, through which diminutive electric trains ran.

This was a VERY interesting and innovative system; the photos showing the complex "Grand Union" junctions are fascinating!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tunnel_Company
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another excellent page (w/ a number of period photos) on the Chicago Tunnel Company (it is hard to imagine such a sinewy network of tunnels like this in Manhattan, handling little electric-powered trains as they twisted and turned through the complex ganglia of subway tunnels!) Shocked

https://chicagology.com/transportation/chicagotunnelco/
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going back to "West of Hudson".........

By the early 1950's, the ERIE's rambling, ancient Pavonia Avenue terminal had become ramshackle and decrepit, though still picturesque, in a historic sense..

The City of Jersey City called for its condemnation; the ERIE, responding to this, again submitted a previously-ignored plant to abandoned ferry service altogether, tear down the old station, and then build a modern, condensed station further away from the riverfront, directly above the H&M station concourse (recall, the ERIE's platforms each had two kiosks per platform, for access to the H&M mezzanine level)

Once again, however, the City rejected the plan to abandon the Chambers St. ferryboats.

At about this time, "relief", in a sense, was beginning to take shape; the ERIE planned to gradually shift their commuter and through trains up to the DL&W Terminal at Hoboken, in anticipation of the eventual merger that came in 1960.

Through 1956, the ERIE was operating a four-boat fleet (with one boat held in reserve); by December, 1958 (when ferry service from Pavonia Avenue was shut down), the operation was down to only one boat, the "ARLINGTON".

Prior to this, the "JAMESTOWN" was still in operation, making for a two-boat operation; however, when her generator exploded, the ERIE decided to simply remove the boat from service, instead of laying out scarce cash for her repairs........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughts on the former ERIE/E-L/ConRail Port Jervis line.....

The "Port" is nearly 90 miles out of Hoboken; this is, not surprisingly, the outermost from "Gotham" that you can ride, via NJT.

Though many commuters have boarded trains at PJ throughout the decades, the bulk of passengers alight at stations further down the line, as trains near the NJ border (Bergen County)

If in the event PJ service were to be abandoned, yard facilities would still be needed to store trains between runs; with yards on NJT at a premium these days, the loss of PJ service would also mean the loss of that location for train storage (it would make no sense whatsoever to deadhead trains between the NJ/NJ border, all the way up to PJ, simply to store equipment between runs)

Bus service is not exactly plentiful nor frequent in that neck of the woods these days; if the "West of Hudson" rail service ends, it would seem that bus service, would, in some form or fashion, have to be "beefed up" to compensate for the loss of the trains.

Buses, of course, would offer a one-seat ride direct into Manhattan (unlike the present PJ trains); however, the buses would have to contend with rush hour traffic, something that the trains would not, of course, have to deal with......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This page on Metro-North features much historical information, as well as a number of photos; also, interesting detail concerning present-day operations.

It is interesting to learn that all "West of Hudson" stations are owned and operated by MNCR, with the exception of Suffern; too, read of the proposal, some while back, of connecting the Pascack Valley Line to the Hudson Line, via the Tappan Zee Bridge's replacement......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-North_Railroad
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

..........long ago, I'd read of a monumental plan (1920's-era) to electrify all of the suburban rail carriers in NJ and then, via a new set of tunnels, enter lower Manhattan, where a massive new underground terminal would have been built (think Hudson Terminal on a much larger scale)

Indeed, in anticipation of eventual electrification, the ERIE's earliest Stillwell coaches (1915) had porthole windows at the car ends (as did the NYW&B MU's) for motormen, as well as plenty of underbody space for electrical gear.

The DL&W had the distinction of being the first New Jersey carrier to operated electric MU service to the Hudson River waterfront (this was in 1930)

Two years later, the PRR extended catenary into Exchange Place (recall, the PRR was switching over from third rail to catenary at that time); the PRR, therefore, was the only main line railroad to offer electric commuter service into Jersey City)

Neither the PRR or the ERIE had local stops in Jersey City, as did the CNJ; the CNJ, for many years, shared a station with the LV at Jackson Avenue, and also, on the "main line", with stations located at Van Nostrand Place also, at Greenville.

Had all the NJ commuter carriers electrified, back in the eary 20th century, it would be interesting to see what commuter rail operations would be like today.

Of course, via fairly new track connections and dual-powered locomotives, many NJT trains now can enter Manhattan directly, instead of terminating at either Hoboken or Newark.......

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting facts on the "Kearny Connection"*, which was first placed in service nearly 25 years ago.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kearny_Connection

*Such a connection was not at all a recent idea; in a 1971 issue of TRAINS, plans called for the demolition of the Hoboken terminal (thank heavens THAT desecration never took place!), and replaced by a new, smaller station/office complex.

This new "transfer station" would have allowed E-L's diesel-line commuters to transfer to the PATH tubes, while the electric lines would have been rehabbed, using new ARROW equipment, would have run into Manhattan, via a new track connection in the Harrison/Kearny area......

"NYO"
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

........previously, I had mentioned that both the PRR and the ERIE lacked local station stops in New Jersey.

One cannot help but wonder what things might have been like had the PRR also stopped at Journal Square, along with the H&M.

Recall, that, by 1912, the PRR joint service trains were running between Hudson Terminal and Newark (Park Place), and the H&M opened a new station at Summit Avenue (JSQ)

Until the old Exchange Place terminal closed in 1961, PRR commuter trains ran just inches apart from H&M consists, passing through the busy Journal Square station complex; PRR freights also passed through the Journal Square station; conceivably, the PRR could have made a station stop at JSQ, but, in retrospect, the H&M's trains from Exchange Place already stopped at Journal Square.

It is also interesting to remember that, until the Aldene Plan eliminated express "joint service" trains between Newark and Hudson Terminal, the express trains used a bypass track (the southernmost track at the JSQ station; this track was also equipped with catenary)

After express service from Newark ended, this track was used mostly by work trains, or trains laying over between runs......

"NYO"
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On this day in 1966..........

One of the largest "train-offs" in the Greater NY/NJ area took place, when the E-L abandoned passenger service on several lines out of Hoboken.

All passenger service on the Sussex Branch and Newark Branch ended; likewise, service on the ex-ERIE Northern Branch.

The Carlton Hill spur also lost its passenger service; ditto the Caldwell branch.

The Montclair branch had service cut back to weekday rush-hours only; all South Orange trains (those terminating at South Orange) were abolished, and the MU yard and tower at that location were closed.

The Boonton line lost weekend service; no Sunday service at all remained on the diesel lines.

The following month, the famed, elegant ex-DL&W streamliner "PHOEBE SNOW" (Hoboken-Chicago) would make her final run; Trains #'s 21 and 22 (Hoboken-Binghamton) would also expire at the same time.

After these massive abandonments and cutbacks, the lofty Hoboken Terminal became an echoing, lofty mausoleum, outside of the rush hours.

By November of the following year, the ferries to Barclay St. would also vanish.......a colorful and fascinating era was now breathing its last.....

"NYO"
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.......earlier, I'd mentioned the ERIE's plans to electrify its suburban lines out of Jersey City, circa-1915.

As Port Jervis was (and still is, to this day) the outermost terminal for ex-ERIE commuter trains (NJT/MNCR) it is not all that far-fetched to imagine the ERIE running MU's out of Jersey City, as far west as Port Jervis.

Recall, also, that the ERIE began shifting its trains up to Hoboken as early as 1956; would the DL&W's electrification been compatible with that of the ERIE's? (DL&W suburban electrification began, as you know, in 1930)

Though I have read of the ERIE's plans to electrify its commuter services out of Pavonia Avenue, I never have heard anything regarding the ERIE even remotely considering main-line, through-line electrification.

Given that the "Weary Erie" seemed to have perpetual financial issues, this would come as little surprise.

On a related note, I had read that, years ago, there had been plans to electrify the North Jersey Coast Line (ex-NY&LB) from the present limit of electric operations (Long Branch) south to Bay Head.

With dual-powered locomotives the norm these days, I doubt that any electrification further south of Long Branch would ever become a reality......

"NYO"
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On this day in 1911.......

The PRR opens Manhattan Transfer, located in the Jersey Meadows; this station was highly unusual, in that it had no access to any local streets (which didn't even exist in the area at the time)

This busy transfer hub served as an engine change for PRR trains heading to and from Penn Station, Manhattan (in those days, remember, the PRR was using 3rd rail)

Here, there were gauntlet tracks installed, to allow the narrower rolling stock of the H&M "joint service" trains to also platform here.

The H&M trains to Newark terminated at Park Place until 1937, when they were re-routed into the new Pennsylvania Station; the H&M's Summit Avenue (later Journal Square) station opened in 1912.

Several loop tracks were also located here, used as storage tracks for H&M's "Red McAdoo" trains.

Manhattan Transfer itself was phased out in 1937.......

"NYO"
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