BusTalk

traildriver · Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida

Up until the 1980's, Greyhound enjoyed a monopoly across parts of New York State. Adirondack competed with them between New York City and Albany and Schenectady, and up to Plattsburgh and Massena; while Empire Trailways competed with them between Buffalo, Rochester, Elmira and Binghamton.
The closest Adirondack got 'west' was Fonda, NY, and then went north to Gloversville. Later, Adirondack and Empire got rights to Syracuse, where they connected and started pooling.

traildriver · Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida

Empire Trailways was almost "isolated" from the rest of the National Trailways Bus System...
Their sole connection was with Capitol Trailways of Pennsylvania, at Elmira. Capitol ran thru service with Empire. The thru service went Buffalo-Rochester-Elmira-Binghamton-Scranton-Wilkes Barre-Hazleton-Harrisburg-Baltimore or Washington. Some of the trips involved pooling with Safeway, if they went via Baltimore to Washington. And some trips pooled with Virginia Trailways, and Carolina Trailways, if they continued south to Norfolk or even down to Camp LeJeune, NC.

Later on Trailways presence in New York State was increased when Continental Trailways acquired Edwards Lakes-To-Sea System...
Edwards had the route between Sunbury, Williamsport, and Elmira, NY, where they still had the pool with Greyhound. Edwards also got deeper into western New York, on their Pittsburgh-Dubois-Salamanca-Buffalo route. On that route, they pooled with Empire, running a thru trip from Pittsburgh via Buffalo to Rochester.

When the new routes were awarded in the '80's, Empire also connected at Buffalo once a day with Lake Front Lines (dba Lake Front Trailways) to Cleveland. And with Peter Pan also expanding from Springfield to Albany, Trailways members now an "alphabet route" all the way from Boston to Cleveland and beyond....
Peter Pan Boston to Albany, Adirondack Albany to Syracuse, Empire Syracuse to Buffalo, Lake Front Buffalo to Cleveland, and connected to Continental (ABL) to the west...
Also as part of the new rights, they pooled New York City to Toronto with Gray Coach Lines at Buffalo, when Greyhound went out on a long strike.

traildriver · Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida

You would think that Short Line (Hudson Transit), which also pooled with Safeway Trails on a summer time Liberty to New York to Philadelphia service would have joined the National Trailways Bus System. But since most of Short Lines operations were commuter runs, I suppose they didn't really fit in...
Short Line was once an association that predates Trailways by several years, but was not nearly as 'cohesive', and only covered a relatively small region. Besides Hudson Transit, other Short Line members were Short Line of Rhode Island which became Bonanza, and Short Line of Pennsylvania which at one time was a New York to Washington operation, but in its last years, ran one trip a day from Philadelphia to Rehoboth Beach, DE.
There may have been some more Short Line members, but I cannot recall...

traildriver · Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida

Speaking of 'associations'...
A while back, some 'rocket scientist' at Greyhound got the 'bright idea' of trying to exploit the Greyhound name, by 'franchising' it out to independent carriers, for a hefty fee, of course. Just the opposite of what Greyhound's founders tried to unite them all into the parent corporation.

If I recall correctly, only a few carrier's took them up on that offer...
Great Southern Coaches, which ran between St. Louis and Memphis, and Delta which ran between Memphis and Greeneville, Ms. were two of them, IIRC, forgot the other's....

It did not last very long. Thankfully....

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 · Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:22 am Post subject:

traildriver:

Appreciate you alerting me to my typo regarding "HAWKEYE"; guess we're even now (recall "godden"?) Wink

Also, thanks for the correct information regarding ADIRONDACK; not being the "expert in the field" that you are, I have to take much at "face value", and assume that these people know more then I do.

I always greatly appreciate your taking the time to post so much "in depth" information, regarding past operations.......indeed, it makes for VERY interesting reading (as well as being correct!) Very Happy

"NYO"

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 · Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:28 am Post subject:

I have in my collection, a 'VERMONT TRANSIT" timetable from 1978 (there's an MCI coach on the front, as well as dated 1960's-style graphics)

In the footnotes:

"THROUGH BUSES BETWEEN MONTREAL AND NEW YORK CITY ARE OPERATED NORTH OF BURLINGTON BY GREYHOUND LINES; BETWEEN BURLINGTON AND ALBANY BY VERMONT TRANSIT LINES, AND SOUTH OF ALBANY BY GREYHOUND LINES. THROUGH BUSES BETWEEN BURLINGTON AND NEW YORK CITY ARE OPERATED NORTH OF ALBANY BY VERMONT TRANSIT LINES, AND SOUTH OF ALBANY BY GREYHOUND LINES"

I'm wondering if drivers of the two companies were "swapped out" on these routes.......

"NYO"

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 · Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:34 am Post subject:

traildriver · Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida

traildriver · Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 · Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 pm Post subject:

traildriver:

Once again, greatly appreciate the interesting information you provide; especially interesting to read about VERMONT TRANSIT/GREYHOUND. Wink

Also, thanks for the information on "GREYHOUND" in Britain and in Australia; interesting to learn that the operations in Australia had no connections with GREYHOUND in the States (the Company had no issues with their use of the "running dog"?)

Hey, it's stuff like this that makes our hobby so interesting...... Very Happy

"NYO"

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 · Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:10 pm Post subject:

traildriver:

Enjoy these links....... Wink

www.showbus.com/australia/gallery/greyhound.htm *

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Coaches

*interesting pictures! Very Happy

traildriver · Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 · Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:43 pm Post subject:

traildriver:

Interesting! Wink

As transit enthusiasts often do (especially, those with avid imaginations!) "what if's" can often be quite fascinating.....image GREYHOUND as a world-wide conglomerate, operating an exlusive network of highways coaches across the globe, including Europe and Asia? Shocked

Reality-wise, recall KOREA GREYHOUND, operating forty-odd SCENICRUISERS and 4104's, back in the late 1960's/1970's?

"NYO"

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 · Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:08 am Post subject:

KOREA GREYHOUND (from: "GREYHOUND SCENICRUISER" (McNally/Rayman).....

"......yet another attempt to expand into foreign markets came in the late 1960's. GREYHOUND's new-Far Eastern venture; this new operation was known as KOREA GREYHOUND......."

"......a total of approximately 40 buses were overhauled at San Francisco, painted in the red-stripe livery, and then shipped to Korea. This new overseas fleet included both 4501's and 4104's......."

"NYO"