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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 10:47 am Post subject: |
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When the Dyre Avenue line opened in 1941, service was provided by elderly, narrow, wooden El cars, quite a change from the big, plush "Westchester" MU's.
On the "flip side", when the NYCTA took over the former Rockaway Line of the LIRR in the 1950's,, the subway rolling stock used were of dimensions closer to that of the MP-54's, that had formerly been used.
As part of the NYCTA's takeover of the LIRR's old Rockaway line, a new connecting ramp was built at Liberty Avenue (near Woodhaven Boulevard) to enable IND trains to connect with the former LIRR line.
Prior to 1956, the rebuilt section of the eastern end of the BMT's Fulton St. El, had been upgraded in years past to Dual Contracts standards, enabling the structure to carry steel subway trains.....
"NYO"
["HH-FULTON L'C'L"]
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue May 17, 2022 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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This photo dates to 1941 (the year that the Dyre Avenue shuttle began operation) and is related to the earlier NYW&B/Dyre Avenue line discussion.
Here, we see an elderly TARS deck roof car across from the former NYW&B station; note that, four years after the "Westchester" stopped running, catenary bridges are still in place......
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116626
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
["TARS"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Was quite lucky to come across this outstanding page of rare photos of the Fulton El.......
www.tapeshare.com/FultonEl.html |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | Interestingly enough, the Dyre Avenue line, in its inception, was a true conglomeration; its rolling stock was from the IRT, its signals were surplus from the BMT, and it was operated as a part of the IND (in fact, the train crews were from the IND!)
Platforms at the former "Westchester" stations had to be adjusted to handle the narrower IRT cars, and coin-operated turnstiles were installed in all of the Dyre Avenue line's former NYW&B station houses.
The NYW&B's Harlem River terminal was hardly conducive for "direct" Manhattan-bound commuters, even though they COULD, indeed, transfer to the IRT's elevated shuttle trains that ran to 129th St. (3rd Avenue line); at E. 180th St., of course, NYW&B commuters could transfer to the IRT's subway and El trains.
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Hmmmn....If the IND was responsible for its operation, I am wondering why they didn't just use Arnine cars on it? At least until they started to run thru trains onto the former IRT lines...
The cars would 'fit'...the IND crew would be familiar with them, etc.. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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traildriver:
You are echoing my own thoughts, here....I have wondered the same thing for quite awhile now.
Indeed, the "Arnines" would have been far more "in sync" with the old "Westchester" MU's than the old wooden IRT elevated cars.
Too, it was also not much of a feat to connect the Dyre Avenue line into the IRT "main lines"; yet, it would be sixteen years after the opening of the Dyre Avenue shuttle that the line would finally, at last, connected to the rest of the IRT, enabling through service between Dyre Avenue and Brooklyn............
"NYO"
["Ride The Westchester!"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a thought.....
HAD the Dyre Avenue line been operated with IND cars, it would have been interesting as to HOW those cars would have reached the Dyre Avenue line from their home rails!
Even had their been a track connection between the IRT and the IND, the longer (and wider) IND rolling stock would not have been able to be sent by rail to the Dyre Avenue line.
There was also no provision for any sort of connection between the IRT and the IND, up in the Bronx.
Back in the NYW&B days, however, there WAS a connection between the NYW&B and the NH (later Metro-North's NH division) at E. 180th St.
This is now reminding me of when the first R-32 "Brightliners": were put on public display at GCT (yes, Mom and I saw them!), way back in 1964.
Interestingly, this special train ran out of the NYCRR's (now long-gone) Mott Haven passenger yards, down through the Park Avenue tunnels, and into Grand Central (Track #37)
The shiny-new R-32's NYCTA-style over-riding third rail shoes were adapted, so that the train could draw power from the GCT's under-riding third rail; a NYC engineer rode "up front" with a TA motorman.......
"NYO"
["New York City Transit Authority"] |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Posts: 22551 Location: NEW JOISEY
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Here's another interesting page on the Dyre Avenue line; note that, back in the day, the line was shown on subway maps as an IRT line (blue), even though the route was (officialy) operated as part of the IND with IND crews (as I had mentioned earlier)......
https://forgotten-ny.com/2021/05/dyre-avenue-2012/
["INDEPENDENT"] |
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traildriver
Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2458 Location: South Florida
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Imagine, if they found a way to connect the line, with the IND's own Concourse line. The IRT would have had real competition in Bronx... |
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