BusTalk Forum Index BusTalk
A Community Discussing Buses and Bus Operations Worldwide!
 
 BusTalk MainBusTalk Main FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups BusTalk GalleriesBusTalk Galleries   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

South, East, and all around the town.......
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 50, 51, 52  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> General Transportation - All Other Modes
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 10:29 pm    Post subject: South, East, and all around the town....... Reply with quote

Fellows:

Though railfan windows are now extinct on the New York subways (RIP), it will always be the ultimate in excitement to read of proposed plans for extensions of new subway lines, or the construction of totally new ones.

A few of my own:

When the abandoned NYW&B ROW in The Bronx became the Dyre Avenue line in 1941, the line should have been:

A:

Extended beyond Dyre Avenue and further into ex-Westchester territory.

B:

Had a track connection installed between the Dyre Avenue line and the IRT "main" (this, of course, finally became a reality in 1957, allowing for through service between Brooklyn and Dyre Avenue)

Thoughts on the IND:

The tearing up of the "World's Fair Railroad" (the IND line to the 1939 World's Fair) should never have been removed.

Had this line remained intact, rest assured it would, today, have become a heavily-used route.

2nd Avenue Subway:

Today's "stubway" is a far cry from what was envisioned decades ago.

Imagine if provisions for the 2nd Avenue subway were installed as part of the the original IND.

In my mind, both the 8th Avenue and 6th Avenue IND trunk lines could have been built with provisions for 6 tracks, you would have had trains of the 8th, 6th, and 2nd Avenue lines running cheek-to-jowl for a good stretch, before the 2nd Avenue route branched off to run into both upper Manhattan and the Bronx.

With six tracks, two could have been used by locals, two by expresses, and the remaining two for limited-stop "super expresses".

I have also read much on the proposed tunnels under the Narrows, which would have allowed SIRT trains to run from St. George and into Manhattan, via the BMT's 4th Avenue line (as we all know, the SIRT electrified its lines with modern rapid transit cars in 1925, for this very reason.

This would have allowed Staten Island commuters to commute via a one-seat ride into Manhattan.

To this day, bellmouths for the proposed Staten Island tubes exist near the BMT's 59th St. station in Brooklyn.

It would have been interesting, has this new connection been built, to see if SIRT crews would have been allowed to pilot their trains all the way into Manhattan, or, would BMT crews would have taken over, once the SIRT train arrived at 59th St.

Long ago, a fellow at the Transit Museum told me that the stub tracks at Court St. were to align with the IND's stub tracks at Hudson Terminal (WTC), and, via a new set of East River tubes, would have allowed through service beyond Court St., via the Fulton St. line, to Utica Avenue (perhaps "AA" or "E" trains might have run on this line)

I have also, in the past, thought of re-establishing through service to Manhattan, on what has been, for decades, the Franklin Avenue shuttle.

As Your's Truly says, "It costs NOTHING to DREAM, so, you might as well go FIRST CLASS!"......... Wink

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat May 16, 2020 2:03 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though the INTERBOROUGH (IRT) was, of course, the first subway to operate in New York, in Brooklyn, it clearly played second fiddle to the BRT/BMT, with the latter vast, complex conglomeration of subways, elevateds, and streetcars.

Imagine if the INTERBOROUGH, like the BRT/BMT, had extended its system to Coney Island; here again, at Coney, the BMT was the undisputed king of rapid transit.

It was not until 1954, when the IND ("D" line) was extended (via the BMT Culver line) out to Stillwell Avenue, that IND patrons from the Bronx could enjoy a one-seat ride all the way out to Coney Island, and the former BMT's long-established dominance at Coney Island ended.

At that time, the BMT ceased operations on the Culver Line between Ditmas Avenue and Stillwell; a small elevated remnant survived as a shuttle until 1975, operating between Ditmas and the lower level of the BMT's 9th Avenue station (West End)..........

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting information here on the proposed IND "SECOND SYSTEM"; of particular interest, is the 1939 proposal to extend the IND's Prospect Park line (today's "F") to Staten Island.......

http://www.thejoekorner.com/indsecondsystem/

(courtesy: thejoekorner)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent, "in-depth" page.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_expansion_of_the_New_York_City_Subway
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

History (including proposals through the decades) of the Second Avenue Subway.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One can only imagine what the subways of New York would be like today, had the INTERBOROUGH cars been built to the same dimensions as the later BRT/BMT (and IND) cars.

Here, with ALL equipment in the city of the same width and length, the ultimate in FLEXIBILITY would have been possible in New York; recall, however, the problems that arose in the early 70's, when clearance testing was being done, prior to the arrival of the first R-44's.

The new R-44's were 75-footers, longer than any other subway car in the city.

IMHO, the MTA should have stuck with the basic overall dimensions of the earlier BMT/IND/"Tee-Yay" cars.

Regarding IND's original equipment, I always found it interesting that, when the new R-1's arrived in the early 1930's, they were tested on the BMT's Sea Beach line.

By the later 1960's, the original IND "Arnines" began to appear on the BMT, including the Canarsie "LL" line.

Through 1975, the old IND cars were still on "home" rails, providing service on the then rush hours-only "CC"; then, the remaining prewar cars were transferred to the former BMT's Southern Division, where they ran until 1977..........

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mention here must be made of the grandoise, short-lived NYW&B; the magnificent, high-speed, electric line was, clearly, built with the old adage in mind: "build it, and they will come".

Indeed, real estate boom came to the area once served by the "Westchester", but only long after the big MU's had stopped running, and the former four-track ROW was either reverting back to nature, or being built over.

What killed the NYW&B (last trains ran in 1938), of course, was that the railroad did not extend into Manhattan; over the years, Westchester commuters had to transfer at E. 180th St., to either the IRT subway or the El.

Recall, in Chicago, the heavy interurban trains of the CA&E and the North Shore operated directly into the Loop via the elevated.

The spindly old Third Avenue El would have required much rebuilding to allow it sufficient strength to carry the "Westchester's" heavy MU trains.

Had such an operation existed, Westchester commuters who worked in the Lower Manhattan Financial District a one-seat ride from their suburban stations.

Recall, also, that the "Westchester" was owned by the NHRR, which, like rival NYC, already offered direct commuter service into Grand Central.

As I had mentioned earlier, it would have been a boon to area residents had either the BoT or the early "Tee-Yay" extended subway service beyond the Dyre Avenue terminal and deeper into former NYW&B territory......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The history of the IRT's Dyre Avenue line (ex-NYW&B).......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRT_Dyre_Avenue_Line
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dyre Avenue line's rolling stock through the decades.

Here we see the massive and handsome "Westchester" MU's, elderly, open-gate El cars, steel "Hi-V" deck roof subway cars, and modern NTT trains........

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?18931

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?52940

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?132595

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?13611

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an excellent site on the "Westchester"........

http://nywbry.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the late 1940's, the shiny new "R-11's" made their debut in New York; these sleek, stainless steel cars were to be the prototype for the new fleet of cars that were to serve the future 2nd Avenue Subway.

This small group of cars were also quite futuristic, as they had interior lamps that were supposed to kill germs.

In the 1960's, these unique cars were rebuilt as "R-34's"; as with many "oddballs" in the fleet over the years, these cars were later relegated to the humble Franklin Avenue shuttle, where they ran until the later 1970's.

Thankfully, one of these sleek and historic cars is preserved today, by the Transit Museum........

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?47346

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?128591

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in Coney Island's glorious, fun-filled heyday, millions flocked to Luna Park, Dreamland, and Steeplechase via the BRT/BMT Els, subways, and streetcars.

Subway service to Stillwell Avenue from Manhattan began about 1919, when the new and cavernous Stillwell Avenue station opened; elevated trains and streetcars from Manhattan crossed the Brooklyn Bridge (El service over the BB ended in 1944; streetcars ceased to cross the span in 1950.

The fabled Steeplechase, with its popular "steeplechase" ride (horse riding on iron rails) and the towering Parachute Jump (originally part of the 1939/1940 World's Fair) were tremendous crowd-pleasers; the soaring, majestic Parachute Jump was closed down in the 1960's, and endured many years of neglect before finally being gloriously restored decades later (although it is no longer an amusement ride)

Until 1954, special express BMT trains operated from Chambers St. to Stillwell Avenue, via the Manhattan Bridge, running non-stop between 59th St. (Brooklyn) and Stillwell Avenue.

Interestingly, this route only operated on "sunny, summer Sundays" only......

"NYO"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this nostalgic circa-1955 scene, showing the BMT's Fresh Pond yard, the experimental, modernistic "Bluebirds" (then on borrowed time) share yard space with the venerable BMT workhorses (the brutish "Standards"), as well as ancient open-gate, convertible El cars.

The last of the open-platform gate elevated cars would be gone by 1958 (replaced by refurbished "Q" cars on the Myrtle Avenue El), while the last of the Standards were retired during 1969.

The old, run-down tenements adjoining the storage yard indeed evokes memories of "The Honeymooners"....... Wink

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?69101

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compared to even to the modern R-68 "Hippos" of the late 1980's, today's "NTT" (New Technology Trains) are indeed products of the high-technology future......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Technology_Train
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a truly nostalgic view of the BMT's 8th Avenue (Manhattan) terminal in 1969.

The venerable old BMT "Standards" will soon be gone, and now prewar IND cars are on former BMT rails, signed for the "LL".

Note the large sign over the stairway directing future "Tee-Yay" employees to the old "NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT AUTHORITY TRAINING SCHOOL"; also, note the old electric "NEXT TRAIN" sign, and incandescent lighting

Such now-timeless scenes were once so commonplace for many of us older gentlemen, back in the day; today, it all seems like 100 years ago.........

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?6467

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sat May 16, 2020 2:00 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    BusTalk Forum Index -> General Transportation - All Other Modes All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 50, 51, 52  Next
Page 1 of 52

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group