BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

(see previous postings)

Further on the IND's involvement with the Dyre Avenue line, in the early years.........

As only a handful of cars were needed to operate the Dyre Avenue shuttle, it would have seemed a "no brainer" if a few of the IND's cars could have been assigned to the Dyre Avenue line right from the start in 1941.

However, there were no direct track connections between the IND and the Dyre Avenue line, which, of course, would have made transferring IND rolling stock to the line a "no go", anyway.

Not all that long after the group of refurbished INTERBOROUGH elevated cars entered service on the Dyre Avenue line, a group of ex-Second Avenue elevated gate cars were shipped West, and re-equipped with platform steps and pantographs, for use on the KEY SYSTEM's wartime Shipyard Railway (they operated in motor/trailer sets; several cars would be in a given consist, during peak periods))

Seeing a train of ex-NYC elevated cars trundling along a city street had to have been a memorable sight, indeed!

"NYO"

["RIDE THE OPEN AIR ELEVATED"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here is a motor/trailer set of ex-Second Avenue elevated cars on the "KEY"; a few of these rare units still survive today!

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?16164

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["INTERBOROUGH LINES""]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Musings........

The 2nd Avenue El (closed 1942) was the easternmost rapid transit line in Manhattan.

The 3rd Avenue El (in Manhattan) was closed in 1955, with no subway replacement.

Recall, when the IND's 6th Avenue line was being built in the later 1930's, the 6th Avenue El was still in operation (and required much heavy underpinning underground, during subway construction)

One could easily imagine the new 2nd Avenue Subway following the same route as the El; however, I doubt that the subway would have/could have also operated over the Queensborough Bridge, as the bridge trackage and steel trusswork had been built to support the weight of wooden elevated cars.

Might have there been an underground junction near the foot of the bridge, with trains heading for Queens heading east via new tunnels (or, perhaps, being routed into the IND's Queens Boulevard line) with trains bound for upper Manhattan and the Bronx continuing northward?

Might have the new subway emerged from underground at some location in the Bronx, and then connected to the Dyre Avenue line?

Of course, we will never know for certain, but the speculation is always interesting...........

"NYO"

["SAS"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Just a thought............

For some time after the Dyre Avenue shuttle opened, ex-NYW&B catenary was retained, against the hope that at least some NYW&B express service could be resumed.

This, of course, never came to pass.

It would have been interesting, however, if Dyre Avenue line service penetrated a bit deeper into ex-NYW&B territory, perhaps using the new articulated BUDD trainsets which had been originally proposed.......

"NYO"

"RIDE THE WESTCHESTER"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

The CTA's "Skokie Swift" indeed echoes the Dyre Avenue line, as it also was built as a rapid transit line that utilized a small portion of the ROW of a former interurban (in this case, the "North Shore")

This unique line was popular and well-patronized right from the start in 1964, one year after the North Shore had operated its last trains.

For many years, the CTA trains on the "Swift" utilized overhead catenary (as did the former CNS&M, and NYW&B), supported by former North Shore catenary bridges.

Today, the trains no longer use overhead, and instead use third rail.

The following link connects to a page with much historical info on this unique line, as well as photos (click to enlarge)...........

"NYO"

https://www.chicago-l.org/operations/lines/yellow.html

['SKOKIE"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's an EXCELLENT "L" page; many historic images here.........

https://thetrolleydodger.com/2021/06/30/chicagos-lost-ls/

["CHICAGO RAPID TRANSIT"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

See also (another excellent, in-depth page)............

https://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2020/05/chicagos-elevated-railroad-history.html

["THERE'S MORE ROOM ON THE 'L' !"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Interesting differences between New York City and Chicago (rapid transit-wise)--------"Blinker" doors were used on "L" rolling stock in Chicago for decades; such doors did not exist on New York's rapid transit rolling stock; pantograph safety gates (first used on the BRT "Standards" in 1915) were not used in Chicago-coiled steel tension springs were used instead (only the rolling stock used on the Hudson Tubes here in the East used this hardware)-------interestingly the only electrics in the Chicago area to use pantograph safety gates were the IC's 1926 suburban electrics; Chicago was also the only transit property to use standee windows on its rapid transit rolling stock-----------"NYO"

[traildriver]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Further---------The CTA sold 570 of its 600 postwar PCCs (only one postwar Chicago PCC exists today) to the ST LOUIS CAR CO-which scrapped the car bodies and used the parts to built "L" cars #'s 6201-6720; and also cars #1-50 (the latter series used specialized high-speed trucks)----------"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Irony---------a decent contingent of prewar (Chicago) PCC's lasted nearly 20 years on the roster-while-on the flip side-the postwar PCC fleet barely lasted a decade before they were retired and "recycled" into new rapid-transit cars; the postwar PCC's were built to be operated a crew of two; though quite a few cars later operated with a crew of one; a handful-a few years prior to the end of all CTA streetcar operations in 1958-ended up returning back to utilizing a crew of two-------------"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Perhaps not surprisingly-few postwar PCC's were scrapped in Chicago; these cars were junked at a scrap yard at 67th & Cicero; these unfortunate cars were destroyed on the spot-with no parts being retained for use in the building of the new 6000-series rapid transit cars---------"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Decades ago--the CTA operated different rapid transit lines utilizing catenary; the last prewar cars to be equipped with trolley poles were the iconic 4000s------the last CTA line to use catenary was the "Skokie Swift"; here third rail replaced the catenary in the early 2000's--------"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

It is ironic to think that-when the CTA replaced its last streetcars with buses in 1958-the postwar PCC's were only a decade old; how odd indeed that none were sold to foreign operators (Canada/Europe/South of the border) as large groups of now-redundant PCC's* were-during the 1950's----PCC's that had originally ran in DC-Detroit-Kansas City-Los Angeles------were sold not only "south"-but also-Europe and Egypt-----------in Chicago the old 4000s were the last prewar cars still carrying passengers on the "L"-and they were retired in 1973-four years before the last prewar IND cars ran here--------------*In 1960 when the last streetcars were replaced by buses and trolleybuses in Johnstown (PA)-the PCC car bodies were stripped of their trucks and other hardware; these parts were then shipped to Brussels-for use on their own cars-----------"NYO"