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Journal Square 1950
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 70
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 12:57 pm    Post subject: Journal Square 1950 Reply with quote

Can you identify the companies and the models??


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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22278
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15:

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shocked Shocked Shocked

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Quick correction:

The photo dates to about 1960, not 1950 (look at the 1950's autos; newest car I spotted was a '60 Chevy)

Buses:

L-R:

DOWNTOWN

LAFAYETTE & GREENVILLE

(the next bus, a GM, MIGHT have been DE CAMP)

INTER-CITY (WHITE 798, on the #97 to Paterson)

BERGEN AVENUE

The buses seen huddled together at upper right would have been NHBL buses (Route #s 1 and #5)

The lone bus to the left of the "huddled" NHBL buses MIGHT have been a RED & TAN.

The NHBL buses ran right by our old apartment building in Union City, as did the #97.

In fact, the bus stop was only about 25 feet from our front stoop!

BERGEN AVENUE had a quite diverse fleet, back in the early 1960's, before the Fishbowls began arriving later in the decade (this held true for the other local "indies" as well)

There were still some prewar equipment in use.

L&G, at one time, also rostered MACKS.

Hope this info helps, and THANK YOU for sharing this absolutely AWESOME photo, that brings back so many wonderful memories to me! Wink

"NYO" *

And, as I had noted elsewhere, the entire business block at the right has been razed, and is currently a large vacant lot (AFAIK)

["JERSEY CITY-BAYONNE LOCAL']
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further on Journal Square as a major bus hub.......

There are many historic photos online online that depict Journal Square from the 1930's through the 1960's.

Over the decades, there were bus lane changes, to be sure.

There are photos from the 1930s and 1940s showing buses facing both north and south, near the Sip Avenue end of the Square.

During those years, there were also several long-haul companies whose buses served JSQ:

CHAMPLAIN

EDWARDS

FRANK MARTZ

GOLDEN ARROW

ALL-AMERICAN

SAFEWAY

GREYHOUND, through the 70's, had a small "storefront" depot on Sip Avenue, directly opposite the PS terminal, which closed in 1974, when the bland, insipid, uninspired PATH Transportation Center opened.

In fact, to this day, many editorials and local news stories blame the downfall of the once-thriving JSQ business district on the PATH facility, which removed the buses from the Square itself, thus depriving the stores, shops, and restaurants of much of their business.

Suburban buses included DE CAMP's #22 (JSQ-CALDWELL) and INTER-CITY's #97 (JSQ-PATERSON)........

"NYO"

["22 JERSEY CITY"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a number of years, RED & TAN operated a few routes out of JSQ; among them was to the Marion section of Jersey City (west of JSQ), the other was to nearby Secaucus.

In later years, the "MONTOGOMERY & WEST SIDE " took over the Marion run (all of these R&T local runs were operated with Old Looks through the 1970's)..........

"NYO"

["MARION LOCAL"]


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This 1972 photo shows "RED & TAN" Old Look #37 at JSQ, awaiting departure on the #2 run to Secaucus.

The Fishbowl on its right was one of "DOWNTOWN's" Fishbowls......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154510

(courtesy:nycsubway.org)

["RIDE THE RED & TAN LINES"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In discussing the bus lines that once served JSQ, mention must be made of the "99-S", a very busy (and lengthy) route that did not start/terminate at JSQ, but passed through, making a stop.

It was operated by RED & TAN (HUDSON BUS); this VERY lengthy line was both a transit and suburban line, beginning at the PABT, and ending at Keansburg.

Outbound buses, after stopping at JSQ, proceeded south to Bayonne, crossed the Bayonne Bridge into Staten Island, where several stops were made.

Then, it was back to NJ, via the Outerbridge, and thence to Perth Amboy, Keyport, and Keansburg.

During the summer months, however, special express runs operated between JSQ and Keansburg, via the NJ Turnpike.

At the PABT, "99-S" buses used Platform #64.............

"NYO"

["99-S NEW YORK"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding PSNJ's dual-powered ASV's and the greater JSQ area.......

PSNJ converted all HUDSON Division ASV routes to motor bus in 1947; the ESSEX Division lines would be converted in 1948.

Though there were a few ASV lines that operated in Jersey City, only the "#9 NEWARK AVENUE" served Journal Square directly (this heavy route looped through the PS terminal on Sip Avenue);at this station, direct connection could be made with other local PS bus routes, as well as the H&M Tubes.........

"NYO"

["9 NEWARK AVENUE"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PSNJ's #43 was an "inter-divisional" (HUDSON-ESSEX) line that operated between JSQ and the lower level of the PS Terminal in Newark.

Until 1938, this was a streetcar line, using Compromise roof-cars.

Between 1938 and 1947 this was an ASV line.

It then became a diesel bus route (1947)

As a streetcar line, the "#43" was the very last PS streetcar route to run through downtown Newark on surface trackage.

For a brief time (until 1937) rush-hour #43 cars ran beyond the PS terminal in Newark to Penn Station, via the short-lived Cedar St. Subway/City Subway connection.....

"NYO"

["43 JERSEY CITY"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By 1960, the only two intercity carriers still serving JSQ were GREYHOUND and MARTZ.

As mentioned earlier, GREYHOUND had a small "storefront" depot on Sip Avenue, directly opposite PS's off-street terminal.

Though MARTZ disappeared from JSQ sometime during the 1960's, GREYHOUND was still serving the area, as late as the 1970's.

Though most PS routes serving their JSQ terminal (last used as a commuter parking lot, but long ago demolished) were local only, there was also service to Jersey Shore points (I recall 4104's and 4106's, back in the 1960's).......

"NYO"

["PSNJ"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this 1973 photo, we see a first-generation TNJ Fishbowl (still wearing its original PS emblems) at PS's JSQ terminal, after having just unloaded.

The bus would have then swung into its "slot" under the terminal's shed, to load outbound passengers.

Just across Sip Avenue, the GREYHOUND depot can be seen.

The old PS office building on the left (along with its glass platform canopy) still survives today, as part of a local college, though the terminal itself is now long gone..

One year after this photo was taken, the PS terminal (where the old streetcar rails were still partially visible) closed, and all buses then moved into the new PATH Transportation Center.

Your's Truly knew this area very well, in his much younger days.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154505

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["44 PARK AVE."]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many local newspaper editorials have been written over the past few decades, on how the Journal Square business district went into a sharp decline, after the buses were removed from the outdoor bus lanes, with the opening of the PATH Transportation Center in 1974.

Without the steady flow of foot traffic generated by the local bus lines loading out on the Square, eventually, all of the original, long-established business and retail establishments fell on hard times, and eventually disappeared altogether.

Crime also became an issue for the first time.

On the east side of the Square, the entire business block has been demolished.

What buses still serve "The Square" today run on very lengthy headways (for the most part); these days, it is virtually all lookalike NJT buses.

Indeed, the glory days of "buses on the Square" are now long,long gone.

I am so very fortunate to have such fond memories of those long-ago days, when buses now deemed museum pieces were still in daily service, in all their colorful,historical, and diverse glory..........

"NYO"

["BERGEN AVENUE LOCAL"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This picture of the "new and improved" Journal Square dates to 1999.

Note no traces of the former bus loading area remains.

As I had mentioned earlier, the entire business block seen here has been demolished, and the site is now fenced off and vacant.

It is hard to believe that, several decades ago, that buses once dominated this area........

https://www.nj.com/hudson/voices/2010/01/editorial_journal_square_needs.html

["22 JERSEY CITY-CALDWELL"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a great panoramic view of a thriving Journal Square (looking northwest) circa-1937.

Note the large number of local and long-distance buses in this view.

Several long-distance buses can be seen (at left) loading next to the landmark Trust Company Of New Jersey office building.

The empty area just north of the majestic LOEW's movie house (still standing today) straddling the electrified PRR and H&M tracks became the site of the now-defunct J.M. FIELD's department store in the mid-1950's......

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8462/7980237723_43615805a9_z.jpg
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few more photos (scroll down) in this...

https://www.nj.com/galleries/EZ2PPWZAT5CZDJ5ADKLZNA7UQA/
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

What is quite interesting, in looking at these historic photos of JSQ through the decades, is how the many bus lanes shifted and changed locations throughout the years.

When comparing these old views (1930's-mid-70's) one can see how many bus lines changed their loading positions,over the years.

Originally, through the mid-1920's, a much-narrower bridge spanned the H&M/PRR tracks down in "the cut"; it was not until later in the 1920's that that the massive, multi-lane span was built over the tracks, replacing the older, outdated structure.

By the later 1930's, Art-Deco bus waiting shelters were constructed (I remember these well as a lad); these, of course, vanished during the massive rebuilding and construction of the area, leading up to the new PATH Transportation Center (I've hated that monstrocity since Day One)

Interestingly, the area was officially called "JOURNAL SQUARE" only after the famed, long-lived local paper, "THE JERSEY JOURNAL" built their headquarters here; until that time, the adjacent H&M station (which I also grew up with) was named "SUMMIT AVENUE".

This historic station was demolished during the early 1970's.

"CENTRAL AVENUE's" brown buses also served JSQ, but did not stop/begin their lines here.

The northern (off street) terminal was at the "City Line" (border of Jersey City and Union City, where Your's Truly grew up); the roller curtains for these lines were either white on green, or white on red.

One route served the towering Medical Center complex; the other terminated at the old CRRNJ ferry terminal at the foot of Johnston Avenue (we rode this line often, until the terminal closed in early 1967)

Today's "Square" is totally alien to Your's Truly; there is so little I can remember from back in the 60's.

The now-demolished PSNJ station (Sip Avenue) was connected to the H&M station area by "the Concourse", a covered area which gave access to the a waiting room and several concessions.

A wooden escalator also connected to the H&M station concourse; long sealed off, this abandoned escalator was still intact into the early 1990's.

Today's "Square "tain't the same, for certain......... Sad

"NYO"

['1 JOURNAL SQUARE"]


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Sep 08, 2023 10:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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