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Railroad buses/rapid transit/ etc.
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B&O was one of many railroads that 'embraced' buses to supplement their train services, rather than loathe them, as many railfans profess to.

There were two distinct ways of doing this, and in fact, the roads that did would usually separate their operations into two. or more separate subsidiary company's...

One of the largest operations was that of the Santa Fe Railway. They purchased the old Southern Kansas Stage Line, and it grew into Santa Fe Trailways, which later on became a major part of Continental Trailways, with operations from Indiana to California, mainly along the routes of its parent AT&SF. They both competed with their parent, and also provided supplementary services for rail passenger's.

The second operation, was strictly for rail connections. They ran buses from Los Angeles Union Station to Bakersfield to connect with Santa Fe's "Golden Gate" trains to and from Oakland or later, Richmond, where another bus would connect to Santa Fe's bus terminal, at 44 Fourth Street in San Francisco. This service provided the fastest 'land time' between LA and SF, beating competing Southern Pacific service via the valley or coast routes.
The subsidiary operating this was Santa Fe Trail Transportation Company, most prominent as a truck line. They also connected with the Western Pacific California Zephyr to and from Oakland, under contract, after WP's former connection, the SP ferry, ended.
This model is still used today by Amtrak, and its contracted 'Thruway' buses.

Other companies....Union Pacific and Chicago & Northwestern ran Interstate Transit Lines, which along with Union Pacific Stages formed Overland Greyhound Lines. At the end of UP passenger train operations with the advent of Amtrak in 1971, UP still had several bus routes they operated from their station in East Los Angeles to several surrounding cities to connect with their City of Los Angeles.

Other RR owned bus lines were by the Burlington,Missouri Pacific, the Denver and Rio Grande, the Frisco, the Reading....all Trailways affiliates. Then the Southern Pacific, and its subsidiaries, and the Great Northern, the New Haven, the Pennsylvania, the New York Central....all Greyhound affiliates.

After World War II, the Interstate Commerce Commission ordered all railroads to divest their interests in bus lines that competed with their trains.

What was left after that, was just a few scattered supplementary operations. Notable exceptions, that lasted into the seventies were the Bangor and Aroostook, and the Gulf Transport, (first GM&O and succeeded by Illinois Central Gulf).
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

I agree 100%; there are legions of die-hard railfans (I am sure) that are loathe to believe that BUSES had ANYTHING to do with railroads; I've seen and heard much to this affect, in my many, many years in the transport hobby.

Though I most certainly do not have to tell you, all one has to do is to browse through any of a number of old railroad timetables, to see that many connecting bus services then available (these, of course, included buses operated by the railroads)

Until about 1966, the E-L offered "connecting motor coach service to trainside at Hoboken" from the Rockefeller Center Terminal (11 Rockefeller Plaza), and the Hotel New Yorker.

Like it or not, buses had a quite integral part in passenger railroading operations, back in the day....... Wink

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NYS&W, until it abandoned commuter service in 1966, operated a connecting bus service for New York-bound commuters, between "SUSQUEHANNA TRANSFER" (North Bergen) and the PABT.

This service started in 1940, using leased PSNJ YELLOWS that were lettered "SUSQUEHANNA", but still retained their PS insignias......

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 2452
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
The NYS&W, until it abandoned commuter service in 1966, operated a connecting bus service for New York-bound commuters, between "SUSQUEHANNA TRANSFER" (North Bergen) and the PABT.

This service started in 1940, using leased PSNJ YELLOWS that were lettered "SUSQUEHANNA", but still retained their PS insignias......

"NYO"


When I first went to work at the PABT in 1968, there were still signs for that on the old numbered "platform 51" on the middle bus level. I think it is now renumbered as 201...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

I remember that same sign as a kid, when Mom and I would be heading home from New York, via the NHBL #5; in fact, I can remember when that sign was STILL "current", directing NYS&W commuters to their buses (I sure as heck wish I had that sign today in my collection, or, at least, a photo!) Wink

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the early days of the "SUSQUEHANNA TRANSFER" service between North Bergen and New York, PS leased both new YELLOWs as well as older, front-engined "camelback" buses (also built by YELLOW) to the NYS&W.

PS operated a number of "camelback" buses from the late 1920's and well into the 1940's; the buses were so nicknamed because of the distinctive "hump" over the aisle, to increase headroom........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out this truly timeless 1950's photo of a B&O train connection WHITE (No. 89), just off the turntable at the CNJ's Jersey City terminal......this is a VERY handsome bus, indeed! Wink

http://www.godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=1620

(courtesy: godfatherrails)
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Check out this truly timeless 1950's photo of a B&O train connection WHITE (No. 89), just off the turntable at the CNJ's Jersey City terminal......this is a VERY handsome bus, indeed! Wink

http://www.godfatherrails.com/photos/pv.asp?pid=1620

(courtesy: godfatherrails)


Great shot...you can clearly see the "Gray Line" legals below...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

Yup!

This is one of those RARE old bus photos where you "get all the particulars"! Wink

Had the B&O kept on serving Jersey City into the 1960's, I would have been able to see these buses myself, as Mom and I visited the CNJ terminal (and rode the trains and ferries) quite often, back then.

Too, I wonder if the WHITES would have been retained, or replaced with new Fishbowls....it's interesting to contemplate....... Very Happy

"NYO"


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking again back to the railroad supplemental bus services...
One interesting one I recall (since I rode it Confused ), was for the Chesapeake & Ohio's premier train, the "George Washington". This lasted right up to the Amtrak beginning. The connection, was for a bus to and from C&O's station at Newport News from Norfolk and Hampton. In Norfolk, the bus which was contracted from Eastern Greyhound Lines, operated out of EGL's bus terminal.
In fact, EGL ticket clerks sold C&O railroad tickets, even interline RR tickets going beyond C&O's line. Greyhound baggagemen also checked and loaded RR baggage.

Greyhound had at least one bus dedicated to that service...when I rode it in 1971, it was a General Motors model PD-4106, a late model version. In fact I even recall its fleet number...4836.
In small letters on the entrance door, it said: "C&O Transfer Service". The destination sign might have had a special sign for the train...can't remember for certain.
One thing that I do recall...When the bus was ready for boarding, they had a professionally made recording by Jack Karey aka "The voice of Greyhound", that announced the name of the service, the name of the train, and all of its stops, just like they had for the Greyhound schedules.

We departed Norfolk, picked up some more passenger's at Hampton, and then pulled up trainside in Newport News to transfer to the train.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

GREAT MEMORIES, lucky guy! Wink

I can recall reading awhile back that, after the CNJ abandoned passenger service to Freehold in the 1953, they then contracted with "ROLLO TRANSPORTATION" (using Old Looks), to provide connections to the NY&LB at Matawan, in lieu of the abandoned Freehold trains......

"NYO"
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall too, the Long Island RR operated East End supplemental buses in the '60's, and '70's. These were marketed as "Road and Rail" trips, and originally were contracted to Huntington Coach Corp., and later the Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority. They were GM SDM-53xx type suburban's, with underfloor baggage bays, and overhead racks. They were painted in LI blue and grey, with the "Dashing Dan" logo's. They ran between Babylon and Montauk a few times a day, and also from Huntington to Greenport on the main line. Unlike the occasional contracted buses today, during track construction, these were a 'permanent' part of the schedule.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver:

In the book: "STEEL WHEELS TO THE SUNRISE" (Ziel/Foster, 1965), there is a miniscule snipped section headed: "STEEL WHEELS AND RUBBER TIRES", showing a westbound LIRR Fishbowl, west of Middle Village.

The text states that were then two LIRR bus routes:

GREENPORT-SOUTH HUNTINGTON (terminating at the LIRR station)

MONTAUK-AMITYVILLE

"NYO"
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I have that book in my collection...unfortunately, (or rather fortunately nowadays), it's located about 1,250 miles from where I am, now...
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
I think I have that book in my collection...unfortunately, (or rather fortunately nowadays), it's located about 1,250 miles from where I am, now...



........maybe you can find a reasonable-priced copy on Amazon or eBay; a great chapter on LIRR steamboats and ferries as well, in this book! Wink

Being a BIG fan of the old owl-eyed MP-54's, I've long been interested in LIRR history (growing up, I knew the PRR's quite well for a number of years....they were BRUTES!!!) Shocked Shocked Shocked

(just imagine an Old Look suburban all decked out in PRR Tuscan with keystones on the dash, sides, and rear!) Shocked

WOW!!! Shocked

"NYO"
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