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Rollsigns/batwings/readings/routes, etc.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22289
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ANOTHER rare masterpiece!! Very Happy

IMHO, I think that only us older die-hard bus historians/enthusiasts ever associate the buses of FACCo. with OTHER thoroughfares BESIDES Fifth Avenue.

Here again, though much has been written and documented on the history of FACCo. (except, of course, for the short-lived Fishbowl era) there is, in comparison, little on MaBSTOA's history, buses, and routes.

A book on MaBSTOA, as I've said many times here in the past, would truly fill a large void in New York enthusiast's bus libraries.

A book documenting the rollsigns alone would make for an outstanding and fascinating published work.......

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2379
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaBSTOA 15 wrote:
Here is a rare sign... the Q89 was the former Fifth Avenue Coach route 16, Elmhurst Crosstown... originally based at 76th Street and Northern Blvd. and then under MaBSTOA ownership at 54th Street Depot.


No doubt made after spring 1974. Early 1973 roll signs with this layout (and combination U&LC in Standard Medium) would have had 'QM16' before each end destination. (Unwittingly duplicating the designation of a Green Bus Lines express bus route which ran from Rockaway Park to mid-Manhattan - and today, under MTA Bus, goes as far as Neponsit.)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22289
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...I cannot help but think of how the vast majority of bus roller curtains either were left on the buses when they were scrapped, or simply tossed in the trash, beforehand.

I have heard many horror stories about what historical treasures the "Em-Tee-Yay" casually tossed in the trash, many years back.

No wonder what remains today are so highly-valued and rare.......

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22289
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Park Row & Beekman.......

Even #8516's dapper driver seems to be striking a "classic pose" in this timeless photo! Very Happy

Ahhh, the good ol' days...........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1090

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22289
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same location, but a few years earlier (1969)

This one is TRULY a CLASSIC......'nuff said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very Happy Very Happy

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1086

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22289
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"NECK AND NECK" (3rd Avenue & 72nd, 1981).......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2916

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22289
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flatbush Garage, 1968.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?213

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Battery & Greenwich, 1981......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?561

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22289
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerome & Bedford Park Blvd, 1970.

(note classic IRT "SMEE" equipment up on the El, still not yet sporting layer upon layer of surreal graffiti)

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?535

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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MaBSTOA 15



Age: 70
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey New York Omnibus 2629, this one is just for you...

Tex Antoine (with, of course, his ol' "drawing board sidekick", Uncle Weathbee!)... on WNBC-TV "your community minded station"



37-3798-SVJIF00Z.jpg
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2379
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Antoine, near the twilight of his career, trading in his smock for a jacket, ditching Uncle Weathbee, and doing more verbal explanations on WABC-TV's Eyewitness News, circa 1973:

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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys:

THANKS for posting these old views of Tex and Uncle Weathbee; Tex was the first weatherman I can remember seeing on television at a very early age (he was, in fact, the man who got me interested in meterology!)

If I am not mistaken, his last stint was on WNEW 5, a few decades back (may he RIP)

Another great favorite of mine was Dr. Frank Field (also, the first weatherman on television in New York!); I also liked his son, "Storm" (VERY appropriate name!); I watched him for quite awhile on WOR 9.

I also watched "Mr. G." on PIX 11 for quite some time, and always enjoyed his format.

These days, I watch Sam Champion, Lee Goldberg, and Jeff Smith on Eyewitness News; today, it's all about Futurecast, Doppler radar, and Accutrak....this would have been BEYOND science fiction to ol' Tex! Shocked

No more cardboard symbols, big arrows, Uncle Weathbee......just ain't the same.......

Again, THANKS for posting these old pictures of Tex (and Uncle Weathbee!)...sure brought back great memories! Very Happy

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2379
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On eBay right now (so this may be time-sensitive) is a circa 1967 non-batwing side roll sign showing every Bronx route except Bx-30 149th Street Crosstown (which, at the time, was based out of Amsterdam depot and thus on Manhattan side roll signs). Here's the link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274306030836

It should be noted that, unlike Manhattan buses, the Bronx routes' order was sequential only by depot / garage: Kingsbridge routes first, then those of West Farms and finally the vast array from Coliseum - all with a 'NO PASSENGERS' strewn about at various points - and no 'SPECIAL's'.

The 1967 dating was due to not only its narrow (20.5" give or take) width, but also routes that were wiped out in the 1969-70 period including Bx-19 207th Street Crosstown (which would be incorporated into the Bx-12, Bx-12A and Bx-12B routes), Bx-6 Throggs Neck, Bx-21 Pelham Bay Park and Bx-14A Edenwald Shuttle. And of course, the origin of this mylar sign was from Transign.

I wish to ask though: Anyone know which depot / garage housed the three 'Shorehaven' routes at the time? Or was it a "ghost route" like Manhattan's "10 Broadway"?
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

The gist of your previous post once again greatly emphasizes the fact that the study of vintage "Noo Yawk" bus roller curtains indeed is a hobby/interest unto itself.

In all honesty, I never thought "in depth" regarding rollsigns; thanks to you (and Mr. MaBSTOA 15!) I have learned that there is indeed much of great value to be gleaned of historical importance regarding bygone bus routes in the city, via the study of roller curtain readings and variations.

I STILL cringe to think of how the vast majority of these now rare and historic sign curtains were destroyed while still on the buses that were being scrapped.....what a waste! Sad

You do not even want to THINK about the hundreds of roller curtains that were simply trashed when the old FACCo. double-deckers were junked. Crying or Very sad

When the GRUMMANS first entered service, it was clear that the evolution of transit bus signage was about to move light-years away from the time-honored roller curtains (strange that some companies DID install roller curtains in their GRUMMANS!)

Again, vintage roller sign discussion/study is a fascinating topic on its own....... Wink

"NYO"
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 2379
Location: New York, New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now from an eBay seller is two historical front roll signs, the ones that would be seen on the left side of the front (i.e. to the driver's right):

New York City Omnibus c.1948 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/133368532031

Surface Transit 1959 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/133368533449

On the latter, notice a darker shade of red on the insert referring to 101 as 'Third-Lex Amsterdam' and 'Third-Lex Aves' - as well as the cutoff of the 'M' prefix from all routes. As to the former, interesting they have 5 as both 'Sixth Ave.' and 'Avenue of the Americas' (the former had been renamed as the latter in 1945 by edict of Mayor La Guardia in his final months in office). Both, natch', are cloth. Notice also on the former, the absence of 22 Pitt & Ridge Sts., which route by then had become a branch of the 21 line.

Will be interesting if 1960 mylar roll signs for FACO or NYCO Divisions of Fifth Avenue Coach Lines turn up (especially the latter for the last 50 New Looks for FACL, 3111-3160, as 1 and 2 by then would have been designated 'Park Ave. So. & Madison Ave.'). Mylar roll signs of Surface Transit for buses 3161-3210 no doubt would've had the route number designations colored red.
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