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What's going on with The Hound?
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22289
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
When this classic photo was snapped, back in the early 80's, GMC's still dominated the network of ramps leading in and out of the PABT.

The lone COMMUNITY Prevost "CHAMPION" indeed is the "odd one out" in this nostalgic rush hour view.........

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?3412

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)


Look again...that's not a 'Champion', it's an MC-7 "Challenger"... Smile


traildriver:

With all this dang humidity fogging up my "specs", NO WONDER I made that error! Rolling Eyes

Funny, I always seem to think of the MC-7 being only a "Hound" coach........ Rolling Eyes

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, HERE is a PREVOST Champion! Laughing

You can see some resemblence, though, to the MC-7.

The CHAMPION, incidently, was the first Canadian coach to be sold to US operators.......

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1518 * (This photo was taken in 1968, showing the first of four SOMERSET Champions crossing over the border from Canada)

http://bus.nycsubway.org/perl/show?1522

(courtesy: bus.nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Bus-Bashing 101"........

I've only seen one photo of one of these unique "bus-bashed" TRAILWAYS coaches, but, as the old saying goes, "One picture is worth a thousand words"!

In William A Luke's "TRAILWAYS BUSES PHOTO ARCHIVE", there is a photo showing what appears to be a 4104 with a 4103 front end.

According to the photo caption, MISSOURI PACIFIC TRAILWAYS refurbished a number of older (1945) PDA-3702's with forward-slanting windows.

The result (quite attractive, I might add!) gave the impression of a 4104 with a 4103 front end.

It would be interesting to see if any other TRAILWAYS company (or non-TRAILWAYS outfit, for that matter) ever carried out similar modernization work on older buses........

"NYO"

*I also have seen pictures of (if I am correct) 4101/4102 types that had the same rear end styling (and windows) used on Old Looks.

I know that the UNION PACIFIC operated train connection services with this style of coach, many years ago; the rear end and rear window was later updated for the 4103's.
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an old timetable from the Supercoach era...
Enjoy!
https://streamlinermemories.info/UP/UP2-40BusTT.pdf
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22289
Location: NEW JOISEY

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
Here's an old timetable from the Supercoach era...
Enjoy!
https://streamlinermemories.info/UP/UP2-40BusTT.pdf


traildriver:

Greatly appreciate the link, but, at present, I cannot view pdf format items.....but THANK YOU anyway! Wink

"NYO"

BTW:

Speaking of updating older buses, in the aforementioned TRAILWAYS book (Luke) there is a photo showing one of the very last AEROCOACH 372's built.

These buses had a choice of either two gasoline engines, or twin diesels.

It is clear that this bus was inspired (at least in "siding") by the SILVERSIDES, as its sides are flanked with fluted ribbing.

The bus pictured was delivered to DE LUXE TRAILWAYS in Chicago.

On a related transit bus note, regarding updating older models, recall the last MACKS built ("New Looks") with their large windshields.

Basically, these buses were "conventional" old-model MACKS with modern front ends.

I know these MACKS operated in Yonkers (some later went to BLUE & WHITE in North Bergen, NJ, where they operated at least until the mid-70's)

Buffalo also operated New Look Macks; likewise, Denver.

Incidently, the "new look" front end for MACK buses were designed by Niagara Frontier Transit.

GREYHOUND operated MACKS on the SF Bay-area commute routes through the 60's, but these were "conventional" C-49DM's.......
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another long-gone bus builder we've not yet discussed was FITZJOHN.

This company built bus bodies as well as complete buses between 1919 and 1958/1959.

In yet another case of "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", the FITZJOHN "Road Runner", without a doubt, was clearly inspired by the 4104.

SOUTHERN TRAILWAYS of Macon, Georgia, was one operator of the "Road Runner"

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FitzJohn
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on FITZJOHN:

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/f/fitzjohn/fitzjohn.htm

(courtesy: Coachbuilt)

*A great wealth of historical documentation and a number of rare photographs, ads, etc., are here.

Be sure to check out the 4104-lookalike "ROAD RUNNER".

Also, towards the bottom of the page, you will see a transit bus that is a dead ringer for a late YELLOW-era/early GM Old Look!

Enjoy!

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presenting the Fitzjohn "ROAD RUNNER"..........

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/bus-stop-classic/bus-stop-classic-1954-58-fitzjohn-roadrunner-another-casualty-of-the-gm-juggernaut/

(courtesy: curbsideclassics)

*Also, note the "DURALINER"; clearly inspired by the ACF-BRILL IC-41........
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's too bad we don't have this variety of American built coaches to choose from today. We have to look abroad for any kind of variety.

But then, isn't that true of just about any thing manufactured today?

Miss those days, when "Made In America" meant the best....

Without going into devisive politic's, I am hoping that some of these trade wars going on, results in at least some resurgence of US manufacturing....
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

traildriver wrote:
It's too bad we don't have this variety of American built coaches to choose from today. We have to look abroad for any kind of variety.

But then, isn't that true of just about any thing manufactured today?

Miss those days, when "Made In America" meant the best....

Without going into devisive politics, I am hoping that some of these trade wars going on, results in at least some resurgence of US manufacturing....


traildriver:

Agreed!

It is also amazing at just how such "diversity" in design could be found within the realm of one builder; also, how prevelant "imitation" was within the industry.

The FITZJOHN "Road Runner" was clearly a "knock off" of the GM PD-4104; the "DURALINER" was inflenced by the ACF-BRILL IC-41.

Too, recall the BECK "Scenicruiser"; only industry people and bus enthusiasts would know the difference between the two.

Further, back in the late 40's/early 50's, PREVOST offered transit and suburban coaches that were virtual twins of the ACF-BRILL C-44's.......

"NYO"

PS:

If you want to buy "Made In America" products, that should be QUITE easy.....all you have to do is just seek out your nearest antique store or flea market.....(!!) Rolling Eyes


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on "imitation" in the bus industry, North Of The Border.......

In the early 50's, CCF-BRILL attempted to enter the intercity coach market; the result was the "VOAYAGEUR", which was virtually identical to the FLXIBLE "Clipper".

Again, only the "purists" could tell the difference between this sleek coach and a FLXIBLE coach.

Though only 37 "VOYAGEUR" buses were built, production ran from 1950 through 1955; CANADA COACH LINES (of Hamilton) purchased 20 of the 37 built........

"NYO"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CANADIAN CAR & FOUNDRY...........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Car_and_Foundry

*In its day, this company was quite diverse, not only building buses, but also, railroad rolling stock and aircraft.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GREYHOUND CANADA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_Canada

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BoltBus (owned by GREYHOUND)

*I did not previously know of the "NeOn" service, which is operated by GREYHOUND CANADA..........
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'Neon' brand, was a consortium between Greyhound Lines of Canada, Greyhound Lines, Inc., and Trailways of New York.
The three carrier's were in a pool arrangement for a several year period, but it no longer exists, although there are still a few of those decals on some TNY coaches.
Due to a disagreement, GLC and TNY no longer pool, hence TNY buses no longer operate between Buffalo and Toronto.
Of course, GLC and GLI continue on pooling. And so do GLI and TNY for the time being...

Also, GLI and Peter Pan ended their pool arrangement a while ago...that one only was a revenue and schedule pool...they never interchanged buses. They are now back in competition with each other, (and other carrier's) on the Northeast Corridor...
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traildriver




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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for US and Canadian companies...there has long been a very close relationship between the two countries, and for a long time, US manufacturer's had Canadian subsidiaries, or licensed their products to be built by Canadian companies. Of course, "buy local laws" has affected that considerably.

Examples...GMC Truck and Coach of Pontiac Mi., and brother Electro-Motive Division of LaGrange, Il., jointly had a Canadian subsidiary, GM Diesel, of London, On. that built buses and locomotives for the Canadian market. When Quebec insisted on it, they also built a bus assembly plant in Quebec, for buses sold there.

Alco (American Locomotive Company)'s subsidiary MLW (Montreal Locomotive Works) built Canadian market products there....

When Greyhound started buying its US coaches from subsidiary MCI, of Winnipeg, they first had to build a final assembly plant a short distance across the border in Pembina, ND. The basic body was built in Winnipeg, then flat-bedded to Pembina to be completed, so it was not an "import".
I believe that since that time, more and more of the product is constructed in Pembina.

Other examples...Prevost's for New York's MTA I believe are assembled in Plattsburgh, NY. VanHool's shipped to the US from Belgium are finished in Camden, NJ by ABC Bus. Nova's and Flyer's imported into the US, I believe have similar arrangements, although I am not knowledgeable of just what they are... All to satisfy minimum content laws of some kind.
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