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1966 GM Buffalo bus luggage bay doors
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TheDriver




Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 202
Location: America

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:37 pm    Post subject: 1966 GM Buffalo bus luggage bay doors Reply with quote

Forgive me if this is not a new topic.
I do not recall anyone ever posting on this topic.
I know that I have discussed this with a lot of people but nobody seems to have the answer.
I have looked at a lot of bus pictures, Buffalos, MCI, Prevost, Silver Eagle and such and I can only conclude that GM was the innovator of the doors that are in use today. I have no way to verify this as I cannot deal with the pages of the patent office and I tend to go to sleep while looking at the small details. There are lots to see but to glean any information takes a lot from me. There are no pages or sites that can verify this on the web, and it seems that most people are not interested in the topic.
Yes, even if this is the information age we still cannot find info on such trivial things even though we have many other trivial things that are just as trivial.
I spent many hours looking at pictures and sites and as I say I spend some of it asleep so it becomes a daunting task and frustrating. I find the same sources keep popping up all the time and so the same information.
I am asking this as a GM bus fan and I wonder if I am the biggest GM bus fan here. I seem to be the one with more trivia.
I know that I looked up a lot of trivia on the fishbowl bus and took odd pictures of the very first one I could snap pictures of. Pictures besides your usual bus poses from the front to the back and sides and the usual interior pictures.
As a shade tree mechanic I am interested in the mechanical aspects of the suspensions and doors and the V-drive used in those days.
since most of those old buses are gone I have little chance to study one.
Man I would love to get my hands on an old Suburban with the manual tranny and see why it shifted so hard. This did not seem like something that GM would have allowed if there were no hostile forces withing the corporation. I would also like to know why the throttle was such a pain.
I'd like to study the "Old Looks" to see if that was a common problem with all buses. Yeah, they like to give the old excuse that you are trying to control something 40 feet behind you but as a mechanic I cannot buy it.
I saw a friend with a Scenicruiser using cable to shift his 13 speed tranny.
That has to be worse than any mechanical set up.
I can understand the friction caused by a body that flexes but this can be overcome.
Anyway, getting back to my topic, I would like to know if anyone here knows who first invented the luggage bay doors that were first introduced on the Buffalo buses.
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1122
Location: Queens, NY

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are looking for the name of the person(s) who invented them? That's a tough question....did you try asking GM for the answer?
They must have the answer somewhere in their corporate archives...

The one thing I recall about those doors was although they were convenient, and could open in a tighter space than the older style doors, they offered no protection from the rain when reaching in for baggage.
The type used by the MC-7 and the later model Eagles did offer that protection...
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TheDriver




Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 202
Location: America

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was hoping to find literature or proof that the Buffalo was the first to use it.
Since I didn't get to ride the bus very much I didn't know about their shortcomings.
I may want to look up the system used by the other manufacturers as to how they solved the rain problem. Thanks


Last edited by TheDriver on Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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TheDriver




Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 202
Location: America

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was hoping to find literature or proof that the Buffalo was the first to use it.
Since I didn't get to
ride the bus very much I didn't know about their shortcomings.
I may want to look up the system used by the other manufacturers as to how they solved the rain problem. Thanks


it took me a minute to figure out how to edit
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TheDriver




Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 202
Location: America

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doors


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TheDriver




Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 202
Location: America

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buffalo


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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1122
Location: Queens, NY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot supply you with any proof that the 'buffalo' was the first to employ the type, other than what I remember...when the PD-4107 came out in 1966, every other type of bus that I am aware of still had the old style baggage doors that were simply hinged at the top, and swung open from the bottom, and had to be secured open with a pin on a chain.

The MC-7 came out a few years later with a similar design to the 'buffalo's', but had an additional panel that pivoted up inside the door, covering the open gap that the 'buffalo's' had. This basic design continues today in just about all coaches.

The Eagle solved the problem by splitting their doors into a top and bottom half, and still was hinged at top, but folded itself to save space when opened.
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TheDriver




Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 202
Location: America

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen the Eagle style or at least I do not remember
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TheDriver




Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 202
Location: America

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buffalo luggage bay doors off


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TheDriver




Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 202
Location: America

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a Buffalo with the luggage bay doors removed.
From what I can see here, there appears to be a type of shield behind the door. To keep the rain off?
I don't know what year this bus was made
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JimmiB



Age: 75
Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 516
Location: Lebanon, PA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Buffalo started in 1966 with the 4107 and continued to 1980 with the model H8H649 being the last.
The one in the photo would be a 4107 (two baggage doors). These were made from 1966 to 1979.
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TheDriver




Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 202
Location: America

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Traildriver mentioned a panel that kept the rain out from between the door and the luggage bay and from the looks of this it seems to be the panel that keeps the rain out and what the door hinges on. It would explain the way some doors protrude out at the top when something is wrong with them.
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TheDriver




Joined: 18 Dec 2015
Posts: 202
Location: America

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I would like to see is the doors at various stages of opening so I can see what is going on. I can only guess at these things like most scientists guess at the universe. They have no way of going to where they want to so they make guesses at what they see. Eventually they come up with a good conclusion. I am only doing the same. I have no bus to examine so I guess.
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traildriver




Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 1122
Location: Queens, NY

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't remember those panels...not to say they weren't there, I just don't remember them...the best I can recall was the doors swung out and up supported by the arms on each side, and when raised there was a gap between the bus and the raised door.
I definitely remember the MC-7 when changing from being hinged at the top the old way and transitioning to the new way, as having that panel...perhaps the early 4107's lacked them, and were changed later on? Not at all sure, sorry my memory is so fuzzy...
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frankie



Age: 71
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 698
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought! Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps the innovators of these doors were European or some other country that GM simply decided to copy?
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