BusTalk

Bassman

This was some time ago when I saw this, but one time I was visiting Niagara Falls, Ontario one day around 1994 or so. During the peak of the tourist season, it's a bus lover's candy store!! Anyhoo, I once saw a Dostie Lines 102C3 equipped with an Eaton-Fuller 10 speed Roadranger transmission. Anyone else see some odd powertrain configurations in buses??

HwyHaulier · Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD

Bassman -

Surely a curiosity! Makes one wonder how the coach configged on delivery.

Your spotting in 1994. I recall much earlier SAFEWAY TRAILS (and by then likely controlled by CONTINENTAL TWYS) with DD Power Plant,
and (memories get fuzzy) what must have been a seven (7) speed, with the "red switch" at top of the shift lever. Coming off a stop,
the coaches were quicker than comparable GREYHOUND units.

A Ten Speed a bit of overkill? The extra ranges aren't needed for a road bus. On a "Freight" application, it is a different story...

.......................Vern.........................

traildriver · Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2462 Location: South Florida

HwyHaulier · Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD

traildriver -

Hey, Thanks! I hadn't spotted that before! That is, you have SAFEWAY time in your logs. Yes, I very clearly recall the 4104 types!
I didn't get any instruction (tho I was just a ticket buying rider) of precise working of the shift pattern. And, yes, they could beat
a GREYHOUND out of a standing stop!

.......................Vern.........................

timecruncher · Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject:

I can't say for sure, but I believe Free Enterprise System in Jeffersonville, IN had 10-speeds in their fleet of Eagle 10 coaches back in the nineties. With the arrival of the Eagle 11's and subsequent J4500 coaches, he went to B400 transmissions.

timecruncher

Q65A · Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:50 am Post subject:

I have an MCI operator's manual for a 2000 102D3 (a reprint bought from Coach Info).
In the transmission section, there are driver's instructionsprovided for 3 trannies:
1. Fuller 7-speed manual
2. Allison B-600/B-600R 6-speed automatic
3. Fuller 10-speed Auto Shift
This gearbox is not shifted using the trucker's time-honored 6-position Fuller Roadranger stick shift (5F+1R, plus a 2-speed integrated auxiliary, for 10F-2R) equipped with either a push-pull range shifter button attached to the gearshift shaft, or with an up/down range shifter level integrated into the shift lever knob.
The 10-speed is described as an "auto-shifting electronically controlled mechanical transmission installation."
The manual goes on to state, "These shift-by-wire transmissions feature inline shifting from an electronic lever and touch pad selector module. Actual shift functions are performed by 2 electric motors in conjunction with the air-assisted range shifter and controlled through the transmission ECM."
Strangely, there is little additional info presented about this unit, other than a diagram of the shifter control in elevation & plan views, plus the following 2 admonitions:

1.) "CAUTION: As with any manual transmission, the clutch must always be engaged when starting or stopping."

2.) "NOTE: The auto-shift may be placed in any forward gear, after coach is in motion, without using the clutch."

This type of tranny installation sometimes is referred to as a "3-pedal", as a traditional clutch pedal is needed for starting & stopping.

As a lifelong big truck fan, I own manuals and have read online info on many Eaton Fuller transmissions, including the 2-pedal varieties, and I can tell you there is a lot of important omited from that 102D3 operator's manual.
As a lifelong bus fan, I suspect that an automated 10-speed box probably would be "engineering overkill" for a typical OTR coach, where loads normally wouldn't vary significantly as compared to those pulled by a Class 8 rig; where operation is on well-maintained hard-surfaced roadways (except perhaps for Alaska'a Richardson Highway); and where modern high-BHP/high-torque diesels are now the universal norm. A heavy, mechanically complex multi-speed tranny clearly would be an expensive and unnecessary luxury (and perhaps an unwelcome maintenance complexity) for a modern cruiser.

Fully-automatic transmision (having as many as 18 speeds forward and 4 reverse) also are available in "2-pedal" jobs, because (as with the vast majority of automobiles, light/medium-duty trucks, transit buses and even a small but growing number of heavy-duty Class 8 rigs) only an accelerator pedal and a brake pedal are required for operation.

Some old-school truckers likely disdain the 2-pedal trannies.
I've seen T-shirts available for sale in Overdrive magazine and other heavy-trucker marketplaces bearing the slogan, "Real trucks have 3 pedals".

I own a 2000 Ford F-350 dualie 4x4 pickup with a 7.3L PowerStroke diesel driving through a ZF 6-speed manual box, so I guess that makes me a little bit of an "old-school trucker", too.

For great big-rig tranny info, check out Eaton Fuller's excellent website at www.roadranger.com. There you can read, download or even order hard-copy specs and manuals for all Roadranger trannies, 2-speed rear axles, etc. There also are terrific driver training videos, too, if you want to learn how to "find 'em, not grind 'em." For those guys who wonder what ever happened to grand old gearbox names like Spicerand Brown-Lipe, they are still alive, d/b/a Transmission Technology Corp.; visit them at their website (I don't remember their exact url; Canadian bus fans will duly note that TTC means Toronto Transit Commission.)

traildriver · Joined: 26 Mar 2011 Posts: 2462 Location: South Florida

Trailways of New York (Adirondack, Pine Hill, and New York) had those Eaton Fuller transmissions in several MCI 102D.s and Prevost H3-45's purchased in the '90's.
Let me tell you, they were not very popular. They were purchased primarily for their promised fuel economy. Perhaps for a heavy truck, they made sense, but for a bus, terrible. They accelerated very poorly, even if you skipped some of the gears. A bus with an Allison would leave them in the dust. And the drivers hated that third pedal in stop and go traffic like you regularly encounter for the Lincoln Tunnel. The passengers were annoyed by the relatively rough ride as the bus was contstantly shifting.
They were almost impossible to sell on the used market. Most of them were converted to either Allison or ZF prior to their being sold.
I don't know of any other busline that used them.
The ZF's used now are almost as bad. They take forever to accelerate up to twelfth(!) gear. At least you don't have to step on the clutch when stopping....The Volvo I-drives are similar, although a bit smoother.

Give me an Allison World tranny, anytime! Wink

Steve Carras · Age: 63 Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Posts: 63

Whew..sorry for the absence, but forgot password, but got a new one..anyhow..I've seen lots of 10 speed buses with Roadrangers..largely Crowns...

On May the 5th, Cinco De Mayo, 2010, my mother and I were in Matzalan riding a Mercedes-Benz/Marcopolo Bus with several switches on a gearshift and the driving shifting further into reverse (showing a regular separate reverse spot and no "reverse shift" switch deal)..and this may have been a 14 speed but I have no info as there was no shift decal and, of course, I didn't wanna bother the driver.

With the T drive that I think that these had, it was obviousl more easier. I read that (on here) that a 4-speed like all the GMCs and sujch had was easier with the GMC's V drive.