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Historical Buses of NYC: The Grumman Flxible Model 870 (Part

 
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Q65A



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Historical Buses of NYC: The Grumman Flxible Model 870 (Part Reply with quote

Regular production of the Model 870 began in May 1978, and by the end of that year Flxible had received orders for over 1400 units. MARTA (Atlanta GA) received the very first 870’s (equipped with non-standard Cummins V-903 engines) but the largest order for the 870 came from NYCTA and MaBSTOA. Announced in March 1979, the huge order called for 837 buses and parts, plus an option for 176 additional units and parts; the entire deal including options was worth a whopping $107 million. NYCTA/MaBSTOA’s 53102-6-1 fleet was delivered throughout 1980, and numbered in a rather complex manner. PA1-PA175 had been acquired with the financial assistance of the Port Authority of NY & NJ (some GM RTS-04’s later were financed in the same way): PA1-PA96 went to NYCT, while PA97-PA175 went to MaBSTOA. NYCT 201-552 and MaBSTOA 601-910 arrived the same year. NYCT’s units had 6-cylinder Detroit Diesels, but historical references are unclear as to which Detroit 6 was specified (i.e. the 6V-71N or the 6V-92). As with later GM RTS-04’s, it is possible that TA/OA 870’s were delivered with both types of engines: the Model 870 operator’s manual issued for the TA/OA fleet indicates that the engine emergency stop switch (used on normally aspirated Detroit Diesels) was not applicable to all units (turbocharged Detroit Diesels did not use emergency stop switches). TA/OA 870’s also featured 2x1 transverse seating, air conditioning, PA systems (with rod-type microphones operated by a floor-mounted footswitch), Motorola 2-way radios (with rooftop antennae covered with fiberglass hoods), left and right outside rearview mirrors, hoodlum lights, and Luminator electronic front and side destination signs (operated by a selector panel that used 4 thumbwheels to dial in sign codes). 5-hole/10-stud cast steel wheels were used (which were painted dark blue initially, then later were repainted white). They also sported 2 rooftop vent/escape hatches and a vertical exhaust tailpipe mounted at the left rear rooftop. These units had white side panels and roofs and were accented with white lettering, navy blue tape stripes and silver “M Surface” decals. Additionally, 200 units were equipped with Lift-U wheelchair lifts installed in the front entrance doorway. One unit (MaBSTOA 631) actually was equipped with illuminated Bus-O-Rama advertising panels (“batwings”). These units were assigned to depots in all 5 boroughs. As an odd footnote, in 1980 NYCT took delivery of 13 additional 13 Model 870’s, but these were 96” wide Model 53096-8-1’s, and had 8V-71N Detroits, the only such Model 870’s in the TA/OA fleet. Numbered NYCT 553-565, this “baker’s dozen” was ordered by NYCDOT for Avenue B & East Broadway Transit Co., but the little PBL shut down on March 28, 1980 before the units could be delivered. NYCDOT also purchased a fleet of 163 Model 870’s for the Queens PBL’s. Unlike their NYCT/MaBSTOA sisters, these were units were 53102-8-1’s, equipped with 8V-71N Detroit Diesels. These largely white buses were distinguished from one another by the color of their tape stripes: TCC 101-135 had red stripes, GBL 550-589 wore green, JBI 401-425 showed maroon, while QTC 800-842 and STC 410-429 bore the time-honored orange. In a relatively short timeframe, both NYCT/MaBSTOA and the Queens PBL’s had taken delivery of over 1000 brand new ADB’s from Grumman Flxible. Unfortunately, the glory did not last very long. On November 18, 1980, the A-frame of a new NYCT Model 870 was severed while in passenger service. Although no injuries were suffered and no accident occurred, the TA was justifiably alarmed. During the emergency inspections that followed immediately, 39 additional NYCT buses were found to have suffered cracks in their A-frames. On November 19, 1980 NYCT ordered the entire Model 870 fleet to be sidelined until all units could be inspected for this defect. Although not all 870’s had suffered cracks, the TA issued an order on December 20, 1980 to suspend operation of all Model 870’s. This move had a very severe effect on NYC bus service, as retired Fishbowls and other units quickly were pressed into service to compensate for the loss of the 870’s (which by late 1980 constituted about 14% of the total NYCT/MaBSTOA fleet.) Los Angeles soon withdrew their fleet of Model 870’s after an 870 operated by Santa Monica Municipal Bus Lines suffered a severely cracked A-frame in passenger service. On December 27, 1980, a caravan of 105 retired WMATA buses arrived in NYC from Washington DC to provide degree of transit relief. These were a motley assortment of 35- and 40-foot GM and Flxible New Looks, and were assigned to 54th Street, Amsterdam, Castleton, and Edgewater Depots. Charges and countercharges were hurled by the TA and Grumman, the former claiming that the 870 was not a robust bus, while the latter claimed that the pavement on NYC streets was in substandard condition. Lawsuits soon followed, and the TA cancelled its option order for additional 870’s. Although Grumman initially claimed that its new ADB had been well designed, properly manufactured, and had passed all standard durability tests, a subsequent in-house investigation revealed that Rohr may have misrepresented to Grumman exactly how thoroughly Rohr had tested the 870 (recall that the 870 was a Rohr design pre-dating Grumman’s acquisition of Rohr). This prompted Grumman to sue Rohr for damages, but this suit was dismissed. At this point, all Grumman could do was to implement an emergency A-frame retrofit program to repair not only NYCT’s 870’s but those of other carriers as well. An independent expert engineering oversight panel validated a specific remedial measure: cracked A-frames were reinforced with diagonal braces at the base of each leg of the letter A. The weight of the entire assembly increased by 180 pounds after this upgrade, but mechanical robustness was said to have increased tenfold. These changes would be applied in the field for in-service units. Various temporary facilities were leased locally to complete this massive emergency repair program. Retrofits also were performed immediately on all 870’s that still were under construction; all Model 870’s built after December 1980 received A-frame upgrades while they still were on the assembly line. The TA/OA fleet gradually returned to service after receiving the necessary A-frame modifications (plus another upgrade to upgrade weak suspension trunnions), and the leased WMATA fleet finally headed southward for a well-deserved retirement. Although Grumman had held up its end of all warranty obligations, the nearly 30 year relationship between the MTA and Flxible had been destroyed irrevocably. The final blow came on February 3, 1984, when an OA Model 870 caught fire on W. 57th Street and was destroyed. The out of service bus was empty at the time and there were no injuries. The destroyed bus apparently had been operating without one of its rear shock absorbers in place. MTA Chairman David Gunn had admitted that the fire was caused by a shock absorber mounting pin that permitted an attached panel to bring into contact both electrical wiring and an adjacent fuel line. Charges and counter-charges once again flew between the MTA and Grumman, with the latter blaming the fire on poor MTA maintenance practices. At the urging of Mayor Ed Koch (who publicly proclaimed that the 870 was “junk”) Gunn permanently withdrew the entire 4-year old TA/OA 870 fleet; the PBL’s probably did the same shortly thereafter. Paradoxically, Gen. 3 and 4 Flx New Looks soldiered on daily in TA/OA service until 1988-1990 while their younger 870 sisters were mothballed at Brooklyn Army Terminal. Flxible (which had been sold by Grumman in July 1983 to General Automotive Corporation) bought the hapless 870’s from the MTA for a reported $6,000 per bus. These units were refurbished and resold for an estimated $70,000-95,000 per bus mainly to NJ Transit, Queen City Metro (Cincinnati O) and Puerto Rico. These rehabbed 870’s apparently lived out their service lives fairly uneventfully thereafter. The costs incurred to remediate the 870 debacle were exceedingly high, both in terms of money (Flxible had spent >$27 million just to beef up weak A-frames) and, more seriously, a compromised reputation for product quality. In about 5 years, 4,642 Model 870’s had been produced. In October 1981, Flxible introduced the much improved Metro. It went into first production in March 1983, and sold quite well (9,814 units) over a 12-year period. Finally, Flxible exited the U.S. bus business in 1995. Ironically, in 1995 October Flxible had been in serious negotiations to be acquired Canadian heavy truck builder Western Star (who earlier that same year had purchased Bus Industries of America/Orion), but the deal fell through. Flxible declared bankruptcy on June 5, 1996, and was liquidated a year later (with a major portion going to MCI-subsidiary Universal Coach Parts, who still operates the former Flxible plant at Loudonville, Ohio as the “MCI Major Repair Center”). NYCT did not completely purge itself of all their ill-fated Flx ADB’s: NYCT 236 (a 1980 Model 870) was restored as part of the Vintage Bus Fleet, and is garaged at East New York Depot when not on display.
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Waynejay



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks again Bob. I think the Grumman 870 that caught fire on 57th Street was a 400 series TA express bus from Ulmer Park depot.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As promised; a medley of Queens PBL 870's pictured at work below.

Photos courtesy of BusTalk.info Galleries.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

Grumman 870 compaign ad

Green Bus Lines #550 (on Q10, of Course!)

Triboro Coach Corporation #124

Jamaica Buses, Inc. #'s 408 & 418

Steinway Transit Corporation #428
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Q65A



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waynejay wrote:
thanks again Bob. I think the Grumman 870 that caught fire on 57th Street was a 400 series TA express bus from Ulmer Park depot.
Thanks for the update, WJ!!!
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob,

Hope you liked the pictures!

Were they O.K.?

Mr. 'L'
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Q65A



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mr. L!
Those phots are excellent, as usual; thanks for providing some much needed photography for my article!!!
I always liked the Flx Model 870 (even though I also like the RTS).
It is a pity that Flxible ended its illustrious career in the bus industry with a final act that was checkered at best.
Until I had written this latest BT article, I never knew that Santa Monica Municipal Bus Lines also had experienced A-frame problems with their 870's. If any fleet typified solid maintenance programs, it seems that "The Big Blue Bus" would be the perfect example.
I last was in Santa Monica in 1993, and back then I was a big-time truck fan (those West Coast big rigs were nice to look at, especially those drawbar combo Petes) so I don't remember Santa Monica's buses, but from everything I've seen and read, they've always run a class operation.
I truly love NYC and NYCT buses, but as I recall, the situation in the early 1980's was not very good in The Big Apple.
Starting with the nasty fiscal crisis of 1975 and a few years earlier, the mood in NYC was somber (those of you who live in NYC and are old enough to remember such things may recall the headlines from the NY Daily News, "Ford to NYC: Drop Dead". )
As goes NYC, so goes NYCT. The NYC economy of the middle and late 1970's was reeling from years of economic turmoil and social upheaval, and the employees and buses of NYCT during that period soldiered on as best they could. I know this to be true because I was a daily transit rider from 1971-1975.
The 870 probably was designed a bit too lightly for heavy duty service in NYC. The Gotham pavement of that era were "neglected infrastructure rough" and only the strongest vehicles survive such an environment. The RTS clearly had early teething problems (as would any radically new mechanical design) but they did not suffer the major problems that some of the 870's did. Perhaps Flxible's (Rohr's?) preoccupation with manufacturing economies went a bit too far, resulting in a product that could cope well enough with reasonably rough urban pavements (in NJ, Cincinnati and elsewhere) but which could not survive some of NYC's legendary potholes.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob,

Pictures were my pleasure - thank you.

I live close to one of Santa Monica's routes and I see their buses on a daily basis and I have to tell you that they are the model when it comes to transit operations (and they do it at a profit even to this day!).

Nothing comes out of their garages regardless of its age that isn't spanking new looking including the last of their Canadian New Looks which only recently retired and is preserved (it was the last New Look ever built).

And their 'Classics' which are still going strong (as pictured below) are like factory fresh.

It's amazing what can still be achieved if an operator puts their mind to it.

BTW; I have no memory of any Santa Monica 870's but, as you say, they must have been well taken care of.

Photo borrowed for educational purposes only, and was taken prior to the change to 'BIG BLUE BUS' livery.

Mr.'L'

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Waynejay



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q65A wrote:
I never knew that Santa Monica Municipal Bus Lines also had experienced A-frame problems with their 870's.


Bob,

My understanding is that all of the agencies with the early 870s had to have their A-Frames retrofitted. I think it was 2656 of them with most coming from NYCTA (637), SCRTD (230) and CTA (205). Many other Grumman 870s that had yet to be delivered including 200 NYCTA buses and the PBLs buses were done at the factory prior to delivery.
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Waynejay



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Bob,

Pictures were my pleasure - thank you.

I live close to one of Santa Monica's routes and I see their buses on a daily basis and I have to tell you that they are the model when it comes to transit operations (and they do it at a profit even to this day!).

Nothing comes out of their garages regardless of its age that isn't spanking new looking including the last of their Canadian New Looks which only recently retired and is preserved (it was the last New Look ever built).

And their 'Classics' which are still going strong (as pictured below) are like factory fresh.

It's amazing what can still be achieved if an operator puts their mind to it.

BTW; I have no memory of any Santa Monica 870's but, as you say, they must have been well taken care of.

Photo borrowed for educational purposes only, and was taken prior to the change to 'BIG BLUE BUS' livery.

Mr.'L'



Mr. Linsky,

A couple of years ago, my wife and I were in San Diego for a few days and we decided to drive up to LA for a few hours. Just as we were leaving to had back to San Diego, I was lucky enough to spot this BBB Nova Classic.

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ripta42
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My understanding is that all of the agencies with the early 870s had to have their A-Frames retrofitted. I think it was 2656 of them with most coming from NYCTA (637), SCRTD (230) and CTA (205). Many other Grumman 870s that had yet to be delivered including 200 NYCTA buses and the PBLs buses were done at the factory prior to delivery.


CTA never had 870s; I think you mean Pace.
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Waynejay



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh OK. Thanks for the correction. I just remember the New York Daily News article at the time (I may still have that clipping somewhere in my mother's house) also mentioning LA and Chicago. I know it was SCRTD just from reading Bus World, but I was assuming CTA from the mention of Chicago.
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Waynejay



Age: 58
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waynejay wrote:
Oh OK. Thanks for the correction. I just remember the New York Daily News article at the time (I may still have that clipping somewhere in my mother's house) also mentioning LA and Chicago. I know it was SCRTD just from reading Bus World, but I was also assuming CTA from the mention of Chicago.
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Waynejay



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh OK. Thanks for the correction. I just remember the New York Daily News article at the time (I may still have that clipping somewhere in my mother's house) also mentioning LA and Chicago. I know it was SCRTD just from reading Bus World, but I was also assuming CTA from the mention of Chicago.
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Q65A



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those Santa Monica Classics are sharp-looking buses, no?
That light-colored steering wheel is a nice touch.
I recall reading an article in Wheels of Time (the magazine published by the American Truck Historical Society) which stated that certain truck fleets specified white/light colored steering wheels on their rigs to encourage operators and maintainers to wipe any dirt or grease from their hands before taking the wheel.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob,

The phycology behind the use of white steering wheels is clever, and would probably work great in a perfect world.

But we're living in a world where nearly 50% of woman and even more men don't wash their hands before leaving a rest room, and you expect that they will respect the sanitary look of a white steering wheel.

Forget it! - not going to happen!

It's a good idea though for me personally and I think I'll order one on my next car.

Mr. 'L'
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