BusTalk

[MaBSTOA 15]

Regarding the Road and Rail Service provided by the Long Island Rail Road.

To handle the increase amount of travelers to Greenpoint and Montauk the service was established to connect at the Port Jefferson and Amityville stations. The bus service proved to be cost effective and operationally less disruptive.

There were two sets of bus fleets. One used SDM-4501 and the other SDM-5302 suburban models. One unique feature was two-way radio that the trains did not have at that time.

The 4501 were painted light cream and aqua while the 5302 were painted in the New York State flag colors, orange with a blue belt and roof trim. All the buses were labeled Long Island Rail Road.

The buses were not purchased by the Rail Road but rather by two private operators who subcontracted to the Rail Road.

No fleet roster for Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority shows these buses were taken over by the MSBA. Bus numbers 368-372 and 374 and 375 eventually went to Riverdale Transit

The fleet consisted of the following

Soundside Country Day Camp - Long Island Rail Road

Numbers 365-366 model GM SDM-4501 serial numbers 92-93 delivered January 1962

Number 364 GM model SDM-4501 serial number 109 delivered April 1962

Monville Incorporated ? Huntington Coach ? Long Island Rail Road

Numbers 367-370 model GM SDM-5302 serial numbers 131-134 delivered May 1963

Numbers 374-375 model GM SDM-5302 serial numbers 460-461 delivered April 1964

Soundside Country Day Camp ? Huntington Coach - Long Island Rail Road
Numbers 371-373 model GM SDM-5302 serial numbers 461-464 delivered April 1964

Fleet numbers 500-505 probably belonged to Schenck Transportation but I cannot say so for sure.

Go to

Https://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/roadnrail/roadnrail.htm

Also see page103 of The Long Island Rail Road In Color Volume 1 1949-1966 by Arthur J. Erdman from Morning Sun Books

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

MaBSTOA 15:

MANY, MANY thanks for providing this interesting, detailed, "in-depth" info, regarding the LIRR's long-ago bus connection services; I knew almost nothing about this operation and its buses,l beyond the little info I was able to post here earlier....thanks again. my friend!

"NYO"

BTW: The link you provided does not work ; all I got was a message:

"Your connection is not secure"

[MaBSTOA 15]

A Road n Rail bus stop sign and a GM SDM-4501

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

MaBSTOA 15:

BEAUTIFUL photos; THANK YOU for posting! (sure wish I had one of those neat-looking LIRR bus stop signs in my collection!)

LOVE that classic Fishbowl.....a REAL bus, indeed!

The stylish paint scheme is so very reminiscent of the paint jobs I recall here in "Joisey", in my much younger days, adorning the classic buses I once knew so well..............

"NYO"

["AMITYVILLE"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

1962...........

We've often shared our thoughts here on FACCo's 1962 strike, and what MTA's current bus services in Manhattan and "da Bronx" might be like today, had the '62 strike not taken place.

Had both FACCo and "Soiface" remained independent operators, do you think that, possibly, FACCo would (as it briefly did back in the 1920s) operate a new route in "da Bronx"?

Might either (or both" FACCo and "Soface" attempted to extend service from their southermost terminals down to South Ferry?

Would they have continued to purchase Fishbowls?

A/C?

Non-A/C?

It also would not be a long shot to imagine both companies eventually ordering at least some "Dangerfields", as the 1960s progressed............

'NYO"

["FACL"]

["SURFACE TRANSPORTATION"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Another scenario........

Supposing "The Strike" did not go off until sometime around 1970; would there still be Old Looks in the fleet, or, would have Fishbowls (and, perhaps "Dangerfields") totally replaced them? (IMHO, they would have either been retired by 1970, or, at least, poised to be put out to pasture?)

Had the company still been in operation in 1970, I stil imagine the "Pattons" already retired.

And "Soiface"?

"NYO"

["AIR-CONDITIONED"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

...........imagine, now, if "FACL" (and "Soiface") had remained independent as long as "The Little Red Bus That Could"?

If the "Little Red Bus" could do it........

"NYO"

["M-109"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Further..........

If a truly definitive book came out on "FACCo", I would like to see more detailed coverage on the '62 strike, as well as the events leading up to it, as well as the aftermath, leading up to the formation of "stoa".

And, of course, MORE coverage on theoft-ignored "Jetson" Fishbowls......

"NYO"

["1"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

Before THE strike that knocked FACL and ST out of contention permanently, there was a four day strike from Jan. 1-4, 1962; they were the only ones not to have settled with the TWU at that point (unlike the "Tee-Yay" and "The Little Red Bus That Could"). Ominously, during that strike, Mayor Wagner threatened to revoke all of FACL's (and ST's) franchises unless they returned to the bargaining table. So the strike was settled by the 5th; unfortunately, new problems arose, namely (in a concession to the TWU) the elimination of free transfers, causing a double-fare system especially for poorer residents (this policy would remain in effect through 1975 when the half-fare "Add-a-Ride" transfer system was introduced). This caused bus ridership to go down even further. In-between that and THE strike, on Feb. 16, Harry Weinberg completed his hostile takeover of FACL and installed his crew (including the odious Roy M. Cohn) in charge. He then aggressively lobbied Mayor Wagner to increase the fare to 20 cents, which he wouldn't budge. Little things piled one on top of the other, until his firing of "light duty" employees on the eve of the strike - upon which Wagner made good on his threat to revoke FACL's and ST's franchise licenses.

It's interesting to note that on the day the strike commenced - March 1, 1962 - was when John Glenn had his ticker-tape parade in lower Manhattan after his space mission.

The end of the strike (upon " 'stoa" being created and taking over) led to the demise of the following routes, three of which were one franchise trip per day at this point, the other rush-hours only:
- "Soiface's" M-105 Tenth Avenue route that, after 1948, never even remotely touched Tenth (one trip per day since 1957)
- NYCO Division's #22 Pitt and Ridge Streets line: Created in 1940 in the wake of NYCO taking over the franchises held by Triangle Bus Corp. For a period in the early 1950's part of its route was a branch of the #21 Houston Street-Avenue C line (also created in 1940).
- FACCo's #1 - Fifth Avenue route, the one that was the first of what started out as Fifth Avenue Transportation Co. in 1886. FACL claimed perpetual ownership of this route and had " 'stoa" legally prohibited from resuming it; thus, when the #1 returned to Fifth in 1966 after that transit strike was over, it was in the form of the ex-NYCO route whose SB path was moved one block west (it took the 2010 cutbacks for the M1 to almost totally mimic the ex-FACCo #1's SB route path).
- FACO Division's #19 Fifth Avenue-Riverside Drive (via 157th Street) route - rush hours only since December 1942 when the first of ODT (Office of Defense Transportation) restrictions were enacted in WWII. That path was resumed from 1965-88 as a branch of the M5.

But yeah, all this would fit in a comprehensive book about the final years of Fifth Avenue Coach Lines and Surface Transit from 1956 to 1962, starting a few years before that in 1954 when FACCo was swallowed up by its onetime affiliate, New York City Omnibus Corp.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

Greatly appreciate your thorough, concise "report" on the '62 Strike; though Your's Truly was then still about knee-high to a grasshopper, I DO well recall seeing TV coverage of Glenn's ticker-tape parade (I recall also seeing the launch from Cape Canaveral; recall, also, the huge TV screen erected in GCT's lofty concourse, allowing commuters to see space history unfold)

I can also remember news coverage on TV (I believe WPIX showing buses idled by the strike (I remember Mom saying to me, "Look at all the buses!")

After the demise of the "Kramdens" and the "Pattons" (had FACL survived into the 70s,) would they be operating both Fishbowls and "Dangerfields"?

Would they, later, have opted for the infamous "Borough Bombers" (GRUMMANS), or "taken the plunge" with the first-generation slant-back "RTS"?

Today, in 2026, we can but speculate on what might have been...............

"NYO"

["FIFTH AVENUE COACH LONES"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

Other aspects of THE strike were:
- Initially, FACL's Westchester Street Transportation was also struck, but they struck a deal with the TWU while the city was seizing everything FACL and ST (and FACL spirirted many "good" buses - including the experimental 2500 - outside the city borders).
- "The Little Red Bus That Could" (and all their "Pattons") and the "Tee-Yay" still had their buses running. And of course, the subways.
- The first day of " 'stoa," only ex-NYCO and "Soiface" lines were all in operation. It took longer for ex-FACO routes to be resumed (of which there were eight left: 2 (Fifth and Seventh Avenues), 3, 4, 5, 6 (72nd Street), 15 (Jackson Heights), 16 (Elmhurst) and 20 (57th Street). Most were resumed one week after the " 'stoa" era began in late March; the 2 and 6 were the last to be brought back, on July 1, 1962.
- From the end of the strike until September 1963, the 4 Fifth Avenue-Fort Washington line was based out of Kingsbridge depot, which seemed closer to The Cloisters than its once-and-future home at 132nd Street, to which it was brought back just two months before JFK's assassination.
- During the strike, The New York Times apparently had old late 1950's route maps handed out by FACL and ST, because they listed routes (such as ex-NYCO 3 - Lexington Avenue and 4 - Lexington and Lenox Avenues) that had been discontinued aforehand, and on "Soiface's" M-101, only listed it as Third Avenue, not Third and Lexington.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

Again, appreciate all of this interesting, detailed historical info, regarding the '62 Strike.

What I find especially complex is the routes then in operation, the competition, the legal aspects, and management protocal.

Thinking now, that, the Fishbowls prchased for "Soface" had not arrived until lAFTER the strike, these buses woil;d have been "stoa" coaches right from Day One (and they, of course, would have been "Bullets").......

"NYO"

["GO THE MOTOR COACH WAY"]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

......just now wondering why "The Little Red Bus That Could" ("AVENUE B") was not absorbed into MaBSTOA when it was formed in 1962.........

'NYO"

["AVENUE B & EAST BROADWAY"]

[W.B. Fishbowl]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

W.B.:

That explains it; thanks for the info.

Recall, also, that "The Little Red Bus That Could" was not only the last operator of MACKS in the City, but also, the last to roster (second-hand) Old Looks........

"NYO"

["M-109"]