BusTalk

[N4 Jamaica]

People with more familiarity with CNJ history and Jersey City may come up with a better guess as to why Communipaw Terminal had no streetcar service. I suggest that the CNJ itself was providing local service west and south from the ferry terminal. There was rail service, not trolley but steam.
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For travel between Manhattan and downtown Jersey City (Exchange Place; City Hall) one would not ride a CNJ ferry but rather a PRR ferry or the Tubes.
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There is a neighborhood called Communipaw. Did Ocean Avenue streetcars serve it adequately? Did the jitneys that later became Greenville and Lafayette provide the service?

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Joe:

According to my Edward Hamm, Jr. book on PSNJ trolleys in New Jersey, the "JOURNAL SQUARE" line served Communipaw Avenue, between Monticello Avenue and Pacific Avenue.

This line was converted to buses in 1931; the streetcars themselves displayed a "JOURNAL SQUARE" sign.

this was a complex route with several "legs", and served:

JERSEY CITY

UNION CITY

NORTH BERGEN

SECAUCUS

In Jersey City, these cars ran along these streets:

SUMMIT AVENUE

SIP AVENUE (JSQ)

BERGEN AVENUE

FAIRMOUNT AVENUE

MONTICELLO AVENUE

COMMUNIPAW AVENUE

GRAND STREET

JERSEY AVENUE

NEWARK AVENUE

GROVE STREET

WAYNE STREET

EXCHANGE PLACE

Regarding the CNJ, the first stop out of the Jersey City ferry terminal was "COMMUNIPAW", about a mile west........

"NYO"

[N4 Jamaica]

NYO:
Is there a chance that in your youth you rode the Central Avenue IBOA to the CNJ ferry terminal? I'm guessing there was no reason to leave the bus or board it between Garabrant Street and the ferry. There was no Liberty Science Center yet. That is why the one mile jump from the ferry to the first CNJ station is not so unreasonable.

[N4 Jamaica]

NYO:
Is there a chance that in your youth you rode the Central Avenue IBOA to the CNJ ferry terminal? I'm guessing there was no reason to leave the bus or board it between Garabrant Street and the ferry. There was no Liberty Science Center yet. That is why the one mile jump from the ferry to the first CNJ station is not so unreasonable.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

[quote="N4 Jamaica"]NYO:
Is there a chance that in your youth you rode the Central Avenue IBOA to the CNJ ferry terminal? I'm guessing there was no reason to leave the bus or board it between Garabrant Street and the ferry. There was no Liberty Science Center yet. That is why the one mile jump from the ferry to the first CNJ station is not so unreasonable.[/quote

Joe:

Yes, indeed!

Too many times to count, Mom and I would board a "CENTRAL AVENUE" IBOA Old Look or MACK at the old off-street "CITY LINE" terminal on Summit Avenue, situated on the Union City/Jersey City border.

We used to ride this line (the buses displayed a white-on-red sign that read "CRR FERRY") down to the terminal, either to take a train ride, ride the ferry, or just explore the terminal.

From 1964 through 1966, my folks and I would take a CNJ (NY&LB train) down to Manasquan to visit my uncle and cousins, who had then relocated from Union City.

The last time I ever rode this line was in the summer of 1980, when Mom and I rode a Flex New Look from Journal Square to an ethnic festival being held in the old CNJ station (the old ferry terminal building was then still standing; it was foolishly demolished in 1983)

As a kid, I remember the ride down from the "CITY LINE" terminal to the CNJ ferry as being at least 40-45 minutes long, and the bus seemed to travel on a number of different streets, to reach the ferry terminal.

The old "CITY LINE" station had a small waiting room and starter's office, as well as areas set aside for the drivers.

Several buses could lay over here between runs.

After my folks and I moved away (to West Orange) in 1971, the old "CENTRAL AVENUE" terminal was sold, and the building became a fast-food restaurant; the buses (usually only one or two) would now lay over next to the old station, at curbside.

I still remember the old days fondly.......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Incidently, the CNJ (pre-Aldene) had three "local" stops in Jersey City, once out of the ferry terminal:

"COMMUNIPAW"

"VAN NOSTRAND PL."

"GREENVILLE"

After "GREENVILLE", the CNJ trains began making stops at the stations located in Bayonne; the last station in Bayonne (W. 8th St.) was the busiest and most substantial.

REA trucks, right up until the end, could be found either at the station, or just a stone's throw away.

As mentioned elsewhere, neither the ERIE nor the PRR had local stops in Jersey City........

"NYO"

[MaBSTOA 15]

Back in the very late 1980s and early 1990s there was an excellent magazine called "Electricliners". Their July/August 1990 issue had a great entitled, "The Seventh Wonder of the Traction World - Newark".

It talked about the building and trolley station within the Public Service building that was replaced by PATH with a new glass structure.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

When the CNJ abandoned service to Jersey City in April, 1967, this left PATH as the only passenger-carrying railroad in the city.

After the Bayonne-Cranford "Scoot" shuttle (CNJ/ConRail) was abandoned in 1978, Bayonne was without any sort of passenger rail service until the HBLR arrived in 2000.

Of course, back in the days of CNJ service to Jersey City, and "Scoot" shuttles, jitney vans were still a long ways into the future.....it was all BUSES back in those days!

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

The long-abandoned Cedar St. Subway.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedar_Street_Subway

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's another excellent page (with much history and photos) of the now long-abandoned Cedar St. Subway in Newark; I can still remember calling the buses that used the old PSNJ terminal's lower level station "subway buses".....

http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/cedarst.html

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Note this handsome PS 3500-series car; cars of the 3500 and 3600 series were also used in "FAST LINE" interurban service out of the PS terminal's upper level (note the MU connection receptacles on the end dash)

These cars (as well as the 3600's) were geared to attain speeds of 70 MPH on the "FAST LINE"; 3500's also later operated on the BERGEN Division's busy "HUDSON RIVER" line for many years; originally, they ran in MU trains during the rush hours.......

http://www.newdavesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct154.htm

(courtesy: davesrailpix)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

MaBSTOA 15/Joe:

The sheer massiveness of the old PS Terminal in Newark is quite apparent in this rare 1930's view (photo link follows at bottom of this post)

Note that only buses are in this photo, although some streetcars were then still serving the upper level (note overhead wires and tracks)

During the heyday of the streetcars, nearly 4,000 cars a day used the cavernous facility.

The terminal also had two interlocking towers; Tower #1 controlled the cars using the lower level, while Tower # 2 governed the cars entering the upper level, via Mulberry Street (in later years, after the streetcars had been replaced, Tower #1 was used by dispatchers)

During the 1930's, the lower level tracks were paved, so as to allow the operation of both streetcars and ASV's (and, later, buses)

Until the massive terminal closed in the late 1960's, direct (via escalators) access was afforded to the terminal from the outbound platform of the City Subway's Broad St. Station (today's Military Park station).

In 1966, after the terminal closed, that area was gated off, but remained intact for a number of years into the future.......

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_003.htm

(courtesy: trolleybuses.net)

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Regarding the PS Terminal at Newark......

For decades, the old inbound connector* to the Cedar Street Subway (just outside of the City Subway's loops at Penn Station) was used for storing an interesting collection of elderly PS work equipment; I, personally, was given a guided "tour" of the work car fleet way back in 1972, by a veteran PS trolley man.....even got to go aboard a hulking PS snowplow and ring the gong!

This connector was short-lived; it had been OOS since the late 1930's.

In later years, the old outbound connector was used to store OOS PCC's and, sometimes, one of the work cars.

In the late 1970's, when the old PS terminal was being demolished (recall, bus service into the terminal ended in 1966), demolition crews broke through the roof of the outbound Cedar St. connector, and severely damaged two out-of-service PCC's that had been stored there.

One car was cut up on the spot, while the other was retained for parts.

The outbound connector/junction is today used by Newark Light Rail trains.........

"NYO"

*This short-lived connector between the City Subway and the lower level of the PS terminal was used by the following car lines:

"#13-BROAD" (rush hours only)

"27-MOUNT PROSPECT" (also, rush hours only)

"#43-JERSEY CITY"**

**(inter-divisional HUDSON/ESSEX Division line; this was not only the last streetcar line to use the PS terminal, it was also the last interdivisional route between the HUDSON and ESSEX Divisions)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

In this 1940's view, we see one of the older ASV's (one converted from an older YELLOW gas bus) making the first surface stop after leaving the lower level of the PS terminal in Newark, via the Cedar St. Subway.

The "#43-JERSEY CITY" streetcar line became an ASV route in 1938; look closely and you can still see the now-redundant streetcar rails.......

http://www.trolleybuses.net/psct/htm/usa_h_psct_yellow_009.htm

(courtesy: trolleybuses.net)