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'Bus Nostalgia'
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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
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Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job of sleuthing, Mr. Linsky! Thanks for sharing all the interesting information.
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAMPA TRANSIT COMPANY

Pictured below in a factory pose is fleet number 145 – a 1942 Mack Model RC3G (ser# 1040) and one of eleven (140 to 150) delivered to Tampa Transit Company of Tampa, Florida in January of that year.

The versatile 31 passenger 188 inch wheelbase RC series was popular among medium volume operators and 190 were produced between 1941 and 1943. Of those 190, 40 were equipped with Diesel electric power plants and went to Public Service Coordinated Transport of New Jersey to service low volume routes.

The pictured bus represents not only one of the final Mack’s to Tampa but also the final order to have been delivered in their livery as the company was almost immediately taken over by the Southern Region of National City Lines, Inc. (a quasi division of The General Motors Corporation) with all post war equipment being of GM origin and sporting NCL’s traditional ‘fruit salad’ paint scheme.

From what I can put together, rapid transit in the Tampa area actually dates to 1892 with the street cars of the Tampa Electric Company (see # 163 below) serving both Tampa and nearby Ybor City until the Florida Interurban Rapid Transit Railway Company (see stock certificate below) appeared in 1926. The name Tampa and Ybor City Street Railway Company also enters the picture but with no pinpoint as to its time of operation.

In any event, buses began to appear in the 30’s and the last of street car service ended in the late 40’s.

National City Lines ran the bus system between 1942 and 1971 when it is probable that a transit authority entered the fray.

Nothing can be found beyond 1971 except that in 2007 Hillsborough Area Regional Transit (HART) officially became the operator.

Of note; trolley # 163 (below) has been preserved and restored by the City of Tampa and a local historic society.

Photo courtesy of the Mack Truck Museum – Allentown, Pa.
Others borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY





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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

North Olmstead Ohio

Pictured below is fleet number 53 – a 1941 GM Yellow Coach Model TG 3602 and one of three delivered to North Olmstead Municipal Bus Line (NOMBL) of North Olmstead, Ohio between 1940 and 1941.

Note that while the depicted coach (top) carries the North Olmstead ‘N.O.’ logo just to the right of the fuel filler, it advertises the cities that it serves as part of its livery (Greyhound style) which are North Olmstead, Fairview and Cleveland.

Also noteworthy was the fact that NOMBL ordered most of their equipment in single door or 'muzzle loader' configuration as seen below.

The 36 passenger TG 3602 at 30 feet in length with a wheelbase of 210 ½ inches and a 451 cubic inch GMC gasoline power plant was very popular among smaller operators with 233 built between 1940 and 1941.

It also represents one of the first of the original ‘old look’ designs to be produced as noted by the divided destination sign glass and the Yellow Coach logo under the windshield.

North Olmstead was the first and oldest continuous operating municipal transit system in the United States and was founded by the City of North Olmstead in response to the demise of the Cleveland-Southwestern interurban rail system and began operation in March of 1931 continuing on for the next 74 years.

Among cities it served were North Olmstead, Fairview Park, Westlake and both the west side and downtown sections of Cleveland.

As of March 2005, NOMBL was completely integrated into the Greater Cleveland Reional Transit Authority (GCRTA). Approximately 50 employees from the NOMBL were transferred to GCRTA with the remaining either retiring or resigning their positions prior to acquisition.

Also pictured below is a restored NOMBL 1951 GM TDH 4509 preserved by the City of North Olmstead.

3602 photo courtesy of the Motor Bus Society.
4509 photo courtesy of Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY


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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

‘FIFTH AVENUE’S MODEL 5102’

Pictured below is fleet number 2501 – a 1949 GM TDH 5102 (ser# 0001) delivered to Fifth Avenue Coach Lines of New York in May of that year.

Built on the same wheelbase and powered by a Detroit 6-71 Diesel engine coupled with a hydraulic 'V' transmission, the 50 passenger 5102 was an improved version of the 5101 series that had been produced exclusively for New York City.

Only one such 5102 was ever built and was experimental to resolve structural problems that had cropped up in both the 4510’s and 5101’s which were the first of the ‘paired window’ design.

A similar problem was addressed when the earliest ‘New Looks’ suffered ‘roof shimmy’ due to insufficient side supports.

2501, in familiar Fifth Avenue tones of green and cream livery was most often seen on the number 15 Jackson Heights to Manhattan run and spent its final days under the flag of the Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority (MABSTOA).

A brief history of Fifth Avenue Coach Company may be found on page 25 of this thread.

Photo courtesy of BusTalk Galleries.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

30916

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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'NEW YORK CITY'S 4510'S'

Pictured below is fleet number 4143 – a 1949 GM Model TDH 4510 (ser# 0144) and one of 500 (4000 to 4499) built exclusively for the City of New York Board of Transportation’s Brooklyn Division and delivered over a number of months in that year.

The 4510 model boasted several milestones for GM including the first of the 35 footer’s to be equipped with paired windows, a width of 102 inches and a newly developed Allison Hydraulic ‘V’ transmission incorporating an angle drive.

The 44 seat 4510’s also had the distinction of being among the only 102 inch wide transit buses to operate in the State of New York before 1959 and did so by special legislation from Albany to satisfy the need to replace large volume streetcars in Brooklyn.

These versatile coaches eventually saw service in a number of New York divisions including those of the defunct Fifth Avenue Coach Lines.

Only one other 4510 was built as a demonstrator to Los Angeles and has been preserved.

Also pictured are number 4190 of the same order, and some in their final resting place in Coney Island.

Note; the C-50-DT Macks also came in an optional 102 inch width but the writer is unsure if those purchased by the city in 1950 were so equipped.

Photos courtesy of NorCal Bus Fans and BusTalk Galleries.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY



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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things are getting so bad here that I'm replying to my own posts (only kidding).

Since my posting of the 'New York City's 4510's' article yesterday (above), I have learned that the 400 C-50-DT (Bingham) Macks delivered to the city as well as those to Miami and Fifth Avenue Coach in 1950 were 96 inches in width.

So, it is that the 500 referenced 4510's were the first and only 102 inch wide buses operating in the State of New York before the introduction of the 5301 (New Looks) in 1959.

That clears that up (I hope).

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
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Cyberider




Joined: 27 Apr 2007
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Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A sad sight to see the Old Looks and the BMT Standards piled up like that. Crying or Very sad
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

If you think that's something, you should have seen the L.I.R.R. junk yard that was visible from the train between Jamaica and Locust Manor station which I believe was on the Hempstead Branch.

The old 'MU' cars from the teens and twenties (pictured below) were strewn around like toys with some cut right in half and others piled one on top of the other very much like the buses.

It's a sure thing that the guys who worked there cared nothing for history!

Photo courtesy of L.I.R.R. archive.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY

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Cyberider




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Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen photos of those too, Mr. Linsky. It's like they're trashing our youth! Still, I think most of the old stuff was built better to last longer than today's equipment.

Dave
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'THE 4511'S OF MILWAUKEE'

Pictured below (top) is fleet number 1206 – a 1950 GM Model TDH 4511 and one of 120 (1200 to 1319) delivered to The Milwaukee Electric Railway and Transport Company in two shipments between 1950 and 1951.

The 102 inch wide 35 foot long 44 passenger 4511 was identical to the TDH 4510 (built exclusively for New York City and featured elsewhere on this page) except for certain structural changes which addressed stresses found in the 4510’s, and evidenced in the center picture (#1236) by the added space between the single passenger window and the emergency door to the right of it.

While the 4511’s were not originally built exclusively for Milwaukee, they turned out to be just that due to disinterest by other operators in wider 35 foot models making the 4510 and 4511 the only such buses ever built by GM.

The Milwaukee Electric Railway and Light Company (later known as TMER&T) began offering bus service as early as 1920 using gasoline powered equipment to supplement the streetcars lines with service to where the extensions of those lines would not have been economically feasible.

Gasoline engines remained the choice for the company’s motor coach fleet until 1950, when successor TMER&T purchased the Diesel powered 4511’s.

Also shown (bottom) is coach # 1200 being hauled to a restorer.

Photos courtesy of The Transport Web Page.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY



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Cyberider




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Location: Tempe, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting info and photos, Mr. Linsky. They also had a large fleet of trolley buses, including some Yellows that somewhat resembled the Old Looks from the side. I've got a book on the Milwaukee Transport Co. that concentrates on their trolley buses so good to see some of their other equipment. I also like how they painted their buses.
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Mr. Linsky
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

Here's just a few of the trackless Yellows of Milwaukee and Kenosha;

These buses were at the very beginning of the transformation to the Old Look design noted by their very old look style seperate standee or transom windows which began to appear about 1938.

BTW; I noticed on the 4511's as well as on these cars that there is a 'semaphore' signal arm under the driver's window - I'm wondering what it was used for?

I'm also wondering if the 'Teutonia Bank' advertised in the center picture still makes home loans!

Enjoy,

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY







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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

‘AC TRANSIT’s SDH 4501’s’

Pictured below (top) and shown on its first day of service is fleet number 106 – a 1961 GM Model SDH 4501and one of 57 (100 to 156) delivered to Alemeda-Contra Costa Transit District of Oakland, California in January of that year.

At 35 foot long and 96 inches wide, the SDH 4501 was built on the same platform as the TDH 4517 transit version but modified for suburban operation with raised forward facing seating. full length parcel racks, optional under floor luggage compartments and no standee windows or rear doors.

The suburban 'New Looks' from GM came in both 35 and 40 foot lengths with the choice of either hydraulic or mechanical transmissions, and while production for both started in 1960, the longer model was more successful with sales of 2,553 units as compared to only 512 for the shorter version with production ending in 1976 for both.

AC’s 100’s were acquired to replace aging equipment inherited from the predecessor Key System Transit Lines and were used in their Transbay commuter service to San Francisco and continued to operate into the early eighties.

Note that AC Transit ordered their buses without the 'GM' letters in the logo under the windshield.

In the second picture below fleet number 124 of the same group is shown being off loaded to an Oakland rail siding from a box car designed for transporting vehicles. It was the policy of both GM and Mack to deliver any buses to destinations west of the Rocky Mountains by railroad for obvious reasons.

Also included below are shots of other representations of the same basic model with credits within their frames.

First photo courtesy of Bob Burrowes - second photo courtesy of Northern California Bus Fans.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY




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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'THE 4509's OF GREEN BUS LINES'


Pictured below in a company photo is fleet number 335 – a 1950 GM Model TDH 4509 and one of 35 (311 to 345 ser# 1037 to 1071) delivered to Green Bus Lines, Inc., of Jamaica, New York in November of that year.

The 96 inch wide 35 foot long 4509 series was the first ‘Old Look’ of its design to receive facelifts both mechanically and aesthetically including ‘paired windows’, a higher roof line, more massive bumpers and a new Hydraulic ‘V’ transmission with angle drive developed by the GM Allison Division.

With a wheelbase of slightly over 238 inches and an improved turning radius, the heavy duty Diesel powered 4509 series became very popular among major properties nationwide with 2494 built from 1949 to 1953 and almost 360 of those going to the Omnibus Corporation’s New York operation.

Because of the popularity of the 4509, orders pushed production to its limits and, with deliveries falling behind due to lack of contract chauffeurs, the UAW permitted operators to dispatch their own drivers to Pontiac for pick ups (Green line sent no less then 15 drivers and two mechanics to retrieve almost half of their order).

Incorporated in 1925, Green Bus Lines had both its roots and routes in Manhattan until the early thirties when its franchises were transferred to southwestern Queens County where it was to become one of the largest private operations in the New York Metropolitan area before its takeover in 2006 by New York City.

In the top company archive photo, # 335 is shown on a training assignment in South Ozone Park Queens.

Additional TDH 4509 photos;
Middle NYCO frame courtesy of the Joe Testagrose collection.
Lower frame courtesy of GM Photographic.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY





Last edited by Mr. Linsky on Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'THE 4502's OF LOS ANGELES MOTOR COACH CO.'


Pictured below in two poses along with an interior shot is fleet number 4208 – a 1940 Yellow Coach Model TD 4502 and one of seventy two delivered to Los Angeles Motor Coach Company in several shipments during that year.

The TD 4502 was the first 35 foot 45 passenger bus of an all aluminum moncoque concept from Yellow in what is now referred to as the ‘Old Look’ design but dubbed by GM as the ‘new model Yellow Transit’ at the time (in 1939 Yellow changed model designations and the previous model 740 of that year became the TD 4501 although it was still of the original integral design).

Simply put, the revolutionary monocoque construction technique, which was much like that of an airplane fuselage, had no longitudinal frame or chassis to carry the weight of the body and its passenger load. Instead, the body itself was the load bearing member assisted by a web of angles and shapes and transverse frame members beneath the floor. Steel was substituted for aluminum only in areas where a tendency to twist might have been encountered.

Lighter weight frameless aluminum construction meant both longer body life and substantial fuel savings which made the Yellow line far ahead of its time and very attractive to operators.

You can learn more about Monocoque construction through the first pages of the July/August 1992 issue of Motor Coach Age.

354 of the 239 inch wheelbase 4502’s were built between 1940 and 1941with the largest number delivered to Pacific Greyhound Lines (123) followed by 72 to LosAngeles, 55 to New York City Omnibus and 37 to Surface Transportation System of New York.

As depicted below, the earliest of the Old Look versions came equipped with vertical windshields which tended to distract drivers by reflecting the bright interior lighting at night. This was improved during the first year of production with the introduction of glass members set at a 24 degree angle – an idea originally specified by St. Louis Public Service so their buses would more closely resemble their PCC cars.

Notice the rare shot of the driver’s compartment in which the austere dash panel is flanked by stainless steel Art Deco wings and the cavernous space found over the driver’s seat where later models would house a Thermo-Matic cabinet.

Los Angeles County has been served by public transit for nearly 130 years. During this time at least 220 companies private and public have operated systems that have included horse cars, cable cars, incline railways, steam trains, electric streetcars, interurban cars, trolley buses, and gas or diesel powered buses.

Various independent bus companies came into being with the intention of competing with the existing system. Most were purchased or subsumed by Pacific Electric or Los Angeles Railway. They include:

• Los Angeles Motor Bus company renamed the Los Angeles Motor Coach Company circa 1930
• LA CBD & Westside Lines 1923-1949
• Motor Transport Company 1922-1939
• Original Stage Line Los Angeles-San Fernando
• Pasadena Ocean Park State Line
• Studio Bus line (Hollywood-Culver City)
• Asbury Rapid Transit System (San Fernando Valley-Hollywood-Pasadena-Los Angeles Central Business District 1930’s-1954)

Photos courtesy of Flickr Services.

Mr. Linsky – Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY



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