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Imagine if FACCo had a facility like this!
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out this "open-topper" scene from the 1930 Laurel & Hardy short, "HOG WILD" (bus is a 1928 YELLOW)........

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_26832-Yellow-Coach-Z-AAAM-354-1928.html

["AVOID THE FUSS! RIDE THE BUS!"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recall, the earliest FACCo buses had open "cabs" (as did the London double-deckers of that period)

Prior to 1910, the BRT was ordered to enclose the open platforms on its vast fleet of streetcars; from photos I've seen, FACCo buses now had the driver INSIDE the body (beginning circa-1915)

What I am curious about, is whether FACCo was ordered to give the drivers better protection from the elements, or, was it simply a matter of the Company adopting "the latest models".

Earlier, I mentioned the book where (in 1917) a FACCo driver uses a warning gong under his foot; the author of this book clearly took great pains to make this story authentic (the author herself used her own childhood and young adult-memories to give the stories a true sense of realism, vividly recreating the Lower East Side, and, later, the Bronx, between 1912 and 1918)

The driver's warning gong is particularly of interest to Your's Truly; this was the only mention of such an arrangement that I've ever read about.....

"NYO"

["19 RIVERSIDE DRIVE"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recall, also, that, like London, even when enclosed "cabs" were introduced, the hardy conductor STILL had to brave the elements, except when he collected fares inside.

It would not be until the later 1920's, when the new enclosed-top YELLOWS began entering service, that conductors no longer had to contend with open rear platforms.

In seeing photos of the earliest FACCo motor buses, the heavy greatcoats (also worn by London's drivers) that drivers donned in the winter months, were indeed necessary for these fellows to "brave the elements".

Even when the ancestors of the first windshields began appearing, the bus "cabs" themselves were still not enclosed.

I had mentioned earlier about the use by FACCo drivers of a warning bell, underneath their feet; I know bulb horns were used early on, and, in London, even well into the 1930's, London's buses were required to still carry the old-fashioned bulb horns, even though electric horns were also being used.....

"NYO"

["5 5TH AVE & 57th ST"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of bulb horns and "warning gongs" on early FACCo buses......

In studying photos in the FACCo book by Oliver J. Ogden, it appears that headlights were not to be seen on any FACCo buses until the mid/late 1930's, when the "Queen Marys" and single-deck YELLOWS began arriving.

The only lights I could discern on the older double-deckers were the miniscule lights that were set into the front of the (lower deck) bulkhead, beneath the front windows, on the left and right-hand sides.

Was it thought that, at the time, as the buses traveled brightly-lit thoroughfares, that the use of headlights was irrelevant?

Regarding the aforementioned drivers' "warning bell", I would assume that this was only used on the buses that served through the WW1 era and into the 20's, until they were retired......

"NYO"

["FIFTH AVENUE COACH COMPANY"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



Age: 57
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All these seem to be a measure of the evolution of these vehicles in terms of placements of markers, lights, etc., on the outsides. When something was added on later rolling stock seems an indication of what was more or less made mandatory. Take a look, for example, of early "Old Looks" from the last few years as Yellow, then some of the last "Old Looks" made by GM. Aside from the side windows, there were clearly differences in the lighting, markers, etc., from the first models to the last. Even the beloved "Fishbowls" were witness to such changes based on various government mandates.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Good observations, all.

You mentioned Old Looks throughout the years; outside of the transition from the original square windows to paired windows (circa-1948) Old Looks (like the classic and iconic VW "Beetle") seemed to have remained virtually unchanged throughout the years.

Regarding Fishbowls, In California, LAMTA's Fishbowls (5301's) had the fuel tank located behind the front axle, instead of foward of the rear axle.

Too, there were variations in seat construction, bracing, over the years, all of which was not noticed by most passengers.

Interesting, too, that the "first Generation" Fishbowls featured the distinctive "Art Deco" marker lights, while "Second Generation" (and beyond) models featured small marker lights, almost reverting back to those used on Old Looks.

Then, too, there were buses that had wider-than-normal doors; in Canada, for example, dual-steam exit doors were quite popular.

Then there was Truck & Coach engineering experimenting with exit doors on both sides of the 5301.

Recall, also, FACCo's WHITE 1150-D7's, which featured double-width rear doors.......

"NYO"

["20-57th ST. CROSSTOWN"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of WHITES-when one thinks of vintage buses in Australia, a WHITE 798* generally does not come to mind...... Wink

https://driverclassics.com.au/heritage-fleet/1948-white-798-12 **

(in Your's Truly's much, much younger days, WHITE 798's were still commonplace sights in his area of "Joisey", in both transit and suburban models) Very Happy

*A truly MAGNIFICENT restored example of a vintage WHITE! Wink

**TRIBORO also once rostered 798's......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154324

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?154323

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["33-CROSSTOWN"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know NYCO only had one White - numbered #499, running on the #17 - 79th Street Crosstown. Never got another, nor did they get Macks unlike their affiliate FACCo, or Surface or the 'Bee O'Tee' and later 'Tee-Yay' - not to mention Avenue B & East Broadway.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

I always wondered why WHITES were never owned by the "Bee-Oh-Tee"/"Tee-Yay"/SURFACE.

Like MACKS, these were TOUGH buses, and, IMHO, could have served well in the "Noo Yawk" fleets.

In my area of "Joisey", while they never dominated ANY of the fleets I grew up with, they were indeed more than commonplace, through at least 1966/1967.

Same thing with ACF-BRILLS; TOUGH buses but VERY rare in the "Noo Yawk" area, while they operated (QUEENS-NASSAU took delivery of 15 ACF-BRILL C-44 transits in 1947)

In my old stomping grounds, back in the 1960's, there were no C-44 transits; however, DE CAMP and INTER-CITY both ran C-44 suburbans through the late 1960's.

Look at how popular TDH-4512's were with so many operators, back in the day, and yet, they were not a part of the "Tee-Yay" or FACCo fleets (undoubtably, some of the NJ "indies" operated some of these models)

PSNJ was quite enamored with 4509's......

"NYO"

["97-JOURNAL SQUARE"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting, too, that the "Bee-Oh-Tee" even purchased the postwar TWINS; they were still fairly new when the "Tee-Yay" relegated them to the scrap yard (I still cannot figure out why a buyer could not be found for these modern buses)

Obviously, "Noo Yawk"-area operators had little interest in these buses, and, yet, some cities highly favored them; recall how they dominated the vast CTA fleet through the 1950's and into the 1960's.......

"NYO"

["TWIN COACH"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
W.B.:

I always wondered why WHITES were never owned by the "Bee-Oh-Tee"/"Tee-Yay"/SURFACE.

Like MACKS, these were TOUGH buses, and, IMHO, could have served well in the "Noo Yawk" fleets.

In my area of "Joisey", while they never dominated ANY of the fleets I grew up with, they were indeed more than commonplace, through at least 1966/1967.

Same thing with ACF-BRILLS; TOUGH buses but VERY rare in the "Noo Yawk" area, while they operated (QUEENS-NASSAU took delivery of 15 ACF-BRILL C-44 transits in 1947)

In my old stomping grounds, back in the 1960's, there were no C-44 transits; however, DE CAMP and INTER-CITY both ran C-44 suburbans through the late 1960's.

Look at how popular TDH-4512's were with so many operators, back in the day, and yet, they were not a part of the "Tee-Yay" or FACCo fleets (undoubtably, some of the NJ "indies" operated some of these models)

PSNJ was quite enamored with 4509's......

"NYO"

["97-JOURNAL SQUARE"]

My only guess with regard to "Noo Yawk," and especially NYCO, was that White wasn't Yellow / GM Truck & Coach. Wink Definitely got an education about "brand loyalty" with many cities. I have no doubt CTA's affinity for Twins led to their going all out with their lot of "Dangerfields," for example.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

MUNI was another operation that had large numbers of postwar TWINS (and WHITES) in their fleets.

PSNJ, in the pre-GM days, was a steadfastly loyal YELLOW customer; with the exception of one lone MACK-built ASV, PSNJ was, without a doubt, an all-YELLOW operation.

Oddly, in the late 1940's, PSNJ took delivery of a small group of C-44 suburbans; handsome, smart-looking buses, indeed, but, not surprisingly, they were not in the PS fleet all that long, later being sold to DE CAMP.

That PS even dabbled with a small number of postwar BRILL coaches still is a head-scratcher.

Years ago, in "BUS WORLD", there was an excellent feature on Scranton's WHITES (several models) that ran into the early 1970's; oddly enough, these old workhorses were replaced by second-hand PSNJ/TNJ Old Looks, according to the feature.....

"NYO"

["15-JACKSON HEIGHTS"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

......when it came to watching old "Noo Yawk" movies of the 1940's and 1950's, it was almost a given that when you saw buses, they were either FACCo or SURFACE.

Even BoT buses seemed to be in the minority, in these vintage flicks.

It really wasn't until the 1960's, when you began seeing more in the way of "TEE-YAY" and MaBSTOA buses.

Of course, after 1962, the FACCo and SURFACE buses you saw in a movie (now "Tee-Yay" and MaBSTOA vehicles) represented companies that were now part of history.

Sometimes, especially in the 1940's and early 50's, you might see some NYO buses, here and there, in a "flick" (or newsreel)......

"NYO"

["RIDE THE SURFACE WAY"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From "THE NAKED CITY" (1948)......

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_264123-Yellow-Coach_TD-4502-1941.html

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_264126-Hudson-Super-Six-21-1942.html

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["6-72nd STREET CROSSTOWN"]


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A nearly new SURFACE bus (MACK C45-DT) is seen here in a scene from 1949's "ON THE TOWN" (the SURFACE bus, the colorful taxicab, the IRT kiosk, and the Walgreens all combine to make this a truly classic "Noo Yawk" scene..... Wink

https://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_282235-Mack_C-45-DT-1948.html

(courtesy: imcdb.org)

["RIDE THE SURFACE WAY"]
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