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MaBSTOA T6H-5309A (and El replacement buses)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

There is a great photo from March, 1960 in "NEW YORK TRANSIT MEMORIES (Harold A. Smith) that shows a trolleybus (#3085) on the "47-TOMPKINS" (at Williamsburgh Bridge Plaza), with a shiny, new "Tee-Yay" Fishbowl just behind it.

Quick question(s):

1:

Were the remaining Brooklyn trolleybuses replaced by a like number of Fishbowls?

2:

Did the new Fishbowls carry the same route information on their roller curtains, as the trolleybuses?

3:

What became to the garage/depot where the trolleybuses had been based? (did it become a bus garage, or did the "Tee-Yay" close it altogether?)


Appreciate info, as always......

"NYO"

["47-Tompkins"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's an undated photo of trolleybuses #3126, assigned to the "47-TOMPKINS".........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?156106

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["47-Tompkins"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know B-47 Tompkins was assigned out of the East New York (ENY) depot; the replacement of the trolleybuses came round the same time the second order of 'Tee-Yay' Fishbowls (501-805) arrived on the property. Some of the 500's were assigned to Manhattan where they handled service for routes like M-15 First and Second Avenues for the next several years. It's likely based on old photos Flatbush were among the initial recipients of the first lot of Fishbowls (1-190) they ordered.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

As always, appreciate the always-informative info.

I always thought it odd that neither Old Looks nor MACKS were used to replace the trolleybuses; to my way of thinking, it would have seemed more likely that the "Tee-Yay" would have utilized older diesel buses to replace the trolleybuses in Brooklyn, and assigned the new Fishbowls to more "prestigious" routes.

Of course, the startling, futuristic-looking Fishbowls indeed must have turned more than a few heads in Brooklyn, back then, when compared to the old St. Louis trolleybuses, which, of course, were also quite modern for their day.......

"NYO"

["ENY"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

September, 1968......

A 1968 "Tee-Yay" bus photo I recalled seeing a few weeks ago had one of the "Tee Yay" fleet carrying a placard for the film version of "FUNNY GIRL (with Barbra Streisand)

It got me to thinking of what comprised the "Tee-Yay" fleet that year.

How many Old Looks were still in service at that time (both "Tee-Yay" and MaBSTOA)

How many MACKS were then still prowling around the teeming streets of "Noo Yawk"? (I would think that, by this late date, there weren't all that many of these hulking brutes left)

Where were the greater percentage of non-Fishbowl/"Dangerfield" equipment then operating?

Appreciate, as always, any input......

"NYO"

["Manhattan and Bronx Surface Operating Authority"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
September, 1968......

A 1968 "Tee-Yay" bus photo I recalled seeing a few weeks ago had one of the "Tee Yay" fleet carrying a placard for the film version of "FUNNY GIRL (with Barbra Streisand)

It got me to thinking of what comprised the "Tee-Yay" fleet that year.

How many Old Looks were still in service at that time (both "Tee-Yay" and MaBSTOA)

How many MACKS were then still prowling around the teeming streets of "Noo Yawk"? (I would think that, by this late date, there weren't all that many of these hulking brutes left)

Where were the greater percentage of non-Fishbowl/"Dangerfield" equipment then operating?

Appreciate, as always, any input......

"NYO"

["Manhattan and Bronx Surface Operating Authority"]

A small number of post-1957 Old Looks were operating in Manhattan on 'Tee-Yay' routes, but the predominant concentrations of them and the '58 set were in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island. For the most part, the Macks were in Brooklyn and Staten Island. Don't think I ever saw a '56 TA Mack run on Manhattan routes.

As for MaBSTOA, post-'53 Old Looks definitely; the 1958-59 set were well within both Manhattan and 'da Bronx', though the latter were slithering away towards the latter borough as new Fishbowls were arriving - which reminds me, the arrival of the A/C batwing set spelt the end for the ex-Surface Macks of 1954-58, meaning Manhattan after 1967 viz the NYC omnibus transit scene was essentially Mackless.

['2 to 8 ST via LENOX']
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B;

Again, my thanks! Wink

Funny you mentioned Staten Island; through most of the 60's, when Mom and I were out on one of our many excursions to Staten Island, I can only recall Old Looks and MACKS.

I recall, one of the few times my dad ever came along for the ride, we took the bus (cannot recall which route) to Richmondtown (I remember Mom asking at the SIRT ticket window if the train went there, but was told that the bus would take us there (this was the late 60's)

I STILL recall the Old Looks we took both ways; the one we rode out of St. George seemed to have been running since just before God; rattly, noisy......in other words, a REAL bus! Wink

The bus we had going back to the ferry terminal seemed to have been getting a bit more TLC than the one we rode to Richmondtown on.

In the late 60's, for whatever reason, the Old Looks in Manhattan that, to this day, still stand out in my mind, were the "buses with the sign that sicks out in the front." Wink

"NYO"

["New York City Transit Authority"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee



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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Twilight Time" (1970).........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153792

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153797

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153788

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

{"3-Wash Square"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Williamsburgh Bridge Plaza, 1963, pure, unadulterated, dated nostalgia..... Wink

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?112939

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["14-Atlantic Avenue"]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
Williamsburgh Bridge Plaza, 1963, pure, unadulterated, dated nostalgia..... Wink

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?112939

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["14-Atlantic Avenue"]

And only one Fishbowl in that whole lot. This was the period when the 'Tee-Yay' got the 350-bus (3601-3950) order of second-generation Fishbowls that were scattered amongst the four boroughs where the TA had routes. As of 1966, a full 149 of that order (3601-3749) were at 126th Street in Manhattan, whilst the rest were allotted accordingly:
- Crosstown: 3750-3824
- Ulmer Park: 3825-3894
- Staten Island (Castleton): 3895-3906 (all the rest were 218 Macks)
- Jamaica: 3907-3950
126th Street, at that same time, also had 501-530 and 544-551 from the 1960 order. In short, apparently all Fishbowls. (Though photos from the period exist with Old Look 7000's running up First around the UN area, in spite of them officially reassigned by then to Flatbush and Flushing depots.) With 187 buses in that garage, seemed to the 'Tee-Yay' they needed no portion of the 1964 or 1965 lot of 'Dangerfields', thus those buses' consignment to Brooklyn and Queens depots. (As of 1966, the entire 165-bus order from 1964 was concentrated out of the Flatbush depot alongside 115 Old Looks, whilst of the 1965 set 5601-5700 was at East New York, and 5701-5790 was at Jamaica. What if just a portion of both orders went to Manhattan . . . geez . . . )

That 1963 order, incidentally, was parallel to the one for MaBSTOA (3301-3555) that saw allotments to (apparently) Coliseum (if a bus from that set with Bx-6B markings was any indication) and (definitely) 132nd Street, Amsterdam and West Farms depots at the outset. (Seems the 132nd Street allotment allowed older, better-kept Old Looks to be transferred to within the Bronx, apparently.)
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
"Twilight Time" (1970).........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153792

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153797

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?153788

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

{"3-Wash Square"]

It appears by this time, up to their reassignment to 'Tee-Yay' routes in Brooklyn, the FACL 2600's were pretty much all based out of 132nd Street (with maybe a few at Coliseum depot), whereas the renumbered Surfaces (3221-3259 and 3291 in the end) were shuffled to 'da Bronx'.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

As usual, you provide historical info on "da buses" that truly makes one lament the passing of the "olden days".....thanks! Wink

(I wonder if that lone Fishbowl in the 1963 photo might have been one of the buses that helped replace the Brooklyn trolleybuses in 1960?)

IMHO, I think that the"Noo Yawk" Old Looks (at least,the newer models) were retired much too soon; in "Joisey", the very last of the Old Looks on the NHBL were not retired until 1986.

The last running had to be at least 25 years old; they were, in all honesty, still in decent condition (by this late date, they were mostly used during rush hours)

You always provide much interesting information on the various garages that were in use,several decades ago.

In different places and times, over the years, garages were referred to in different "lingo".

You'd hear both "garage" and "depot" in the streetcar days, you'd hear "carbarn" and/or "carhouse"; also "depot".

In some episodes of "The Honeymooners", I've heard Ralph use the term "depot".

I am sure I asked this question previously (quite awhile back) but do any "Tee-Yay"-era garages still serve today's caterpillars and shoe boxes?

Too, I'm wondering if any former garages still stand, but serving in a non-transit capacity........

"NYO"

["Ride The Surface Way!"]


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Tue May 17, 2022 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is easily one of my all-time favorite MaBSTOA photos (Broadway & 216th St., 1972), recalling the long-ago days when modern buses were still, in many places, being stabled in former car barns......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155741

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["100 To 125 St."]
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W.B. Fishbowl



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote:
This is easily one of my all-time favorite MaBSTOA photos (Broadway & 216th St., 1972), recalling the long-ago days when modern buses were still, in many places, being stabled in former car barns......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155741

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["100 To 125 St."]

It was in that ex-"car barn" that, from MaBSTOA's 1962 seizure of FACO and NYCO division routes (besides Surface's) up until September 1963, the #4 Fifth Avenue-Fort Washington line was assigned, before going back to 132nd Street in that month. This is why any pics of #4 buses with the "old" layout as of 1963 appeared hand-painted - as it came back to that depot a few months after 132nd got their allotment of the new Fishbowls that were the first "made for MaBSTOA" fleet. I presume Kingsbridge car barn / depot was closer to The Cloisters (and Fort Tryon Park) than 132nd?

The M-100, at the time, was based out of Amsterdam depot.

'4 FIFTH AVE FT WASH'N'TON'
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W.B.:

Great input, as always! Wink

Growing up in Union City (we had moved to West Orange in 1971) a leisurely 15-minute walk took you from our door on 132th St. to the sprawling PS garage, which stretched between 27th and 29th Streets, and, between Bergenline and New York Avenue.

In all the years I lived in Union City, I never heard of this turreted old facility as anything BUT "the carbarns".

Even in more recent days, you would still here older area residents still using the old terminology, "the carbarns".

This huge pre-WW1 facility had also served buses and ASV's, in addition to the streetcars (the last streetcars departed in 1949)

NJT closed in in the early 1990's, and, today, it serves as a DPW facility/garage; to this day, some of the old streetcar rails are still visible........

"NYO"

["PSNJ-Hudson Division"]
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