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South, East, and all around the town.......
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On this day in 1957, the Dyre Avenue shuttle (E.180th St-Dyre Avenue) was tied into the IRT "mainline" enabling through service (via the #2 Broadway line) between Dyre Avenue and New Lots Avenue in Brooklyn.

This shuttle line, as you know, was established in 1941, using refurbished INTERBOROUGH elevated cars, running on the remaining section of the NYW&B Railway, which ceased operations in 1937......

"NYO"

["<Dyre>"
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elevated gate cars on the Dyre Avenue shuttle.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75919

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?28617

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?27924

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["Shuttle"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 1950's, the old wooden El cars on the Dyre Avenue shuttle were, in turn, replaced by elderly steel "Hi-V" subway cars......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?26470

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?43573

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a train of newly-refurbished El cars at Baychester Avenue in 1941; note that the old NYW&B express tracks are, here, still intact, as are the now-redundant overhead catenary gantries......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?81245

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["Baychester Avenue"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this nostalgic photo, this R-33 (ML) is displaying a "9" on its roller curtain, denoting a Dyre Avenue shuttle......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?38782

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["9-Dyre Ave-East 180th Street"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recall, in Chicago, interurban trains of the CA&E and the CNS&M entered the Loop via the El.

Now, imagine, if you will, the NYW&B's trains being able to switch onto the 3rd Avenue El for service into Manhattan, including the Financial District.

The lack of direct service into Manhattan was what doomed the solidly-built electric railway from the start.

The cost of rebuilding the El to accommodate such heavy MU equipment, as well as the massive rebuilding of stations, allowing clearance for the big MU's, would have been light-years beyond cost-prohibitive.

What worked for so many decades in Chicago did not necessarily mean that the same type of operations would work in New York.

Still, it IS an interesting scenario to contemplate.....

"NYO"

["Ride The Westchester!"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also interesting is, despite the fact that the Dyre Avenue shuttle began operation in 1941, using IRT El cars, the line was considered part of the IND!

Also, interesting to consider is why close to 20 years hat to elapse before the Dyre avenue line was "tied into" the IRT "mainline", allowing through service between Dyre Avenue and Brooklyn.

Recall, also, that the IRT El cars (and, later, the subway cars) were much narrower than the former NYW&B MU's.

Interesting, also (way back in the old shuttle era) is after the change booth clerks finished for the day, the booths were closed, and conductors collected fares on board the trains, using a Johnson fare box.......

"NYO"

["Change at E. 180th St. For Trains to Manhattan and Brooklyn"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are two old views of El cars and "Hi-V" subway cars at the Westchester's old E. 180th St. station, where, until 1937, the NYW&B's big MU's also called.....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?45177

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24435

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["E. 180th St."]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this 1981 MaBSTOA bus photo (Hunts Point Avenue & Bruckner Boulevard), in the right background, notice the old building (with gables) housing various stores.

Until 1937, this was the NYW&B station (the trains were reached by staircases from the station building).

I have seen photos from the later 1940's and early 1950's also showing the former station housing shops......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155724

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["Ride The Westchester!"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until the NYW&B was abandoned in late 1937, many passengers transferred between the "Westchester" and TARS streetcars (also, IRT subway and elevated trains) here at the opulent and elegant E. 180th St. station.

By 1941 (the year that this photo was taken) the Dyre Avenue shuttle's refurbished wooden el cars were running between E. 180th and Dyre Avenue, using the former NYW&B row.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116626

(courtsey : nycsubway.org)

["Third Avenue Railway System"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we have one of the modern TARS cars, with the ornate IRT entrance headhouse on the left (116th St.)

Is the dapper fellow sporting a fedora to the left of the streetcar, perhaps, a "George Raft wannabe?" Wink

Note, also, the small sign for the Henry Hudson Bridge.

The type of streetcar seen here was as close to PCC-era car as TARS was ever going to get......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116782

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

["B"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In talking about the old "Westchester", I've often imagined what MIGHT have transpired, had the City of New York taken over the line as soon as the NYW&B abandoned it.

Supposing, right from the start (instead of utilizing El cars in a shuttle operation), the INTERBOROUGH had connected the line to the IRT 7th Avenue line (which actually did take place in 1957, 20 years after the NYW&B ran its last trains)

Another interesting scenario would have been (had the original SAS had been built after the War, and had provisions for connection to the Dyre Avenue line) having trains of the larger IND rolling stock, running through to Dyre Avenue.

Too, what MIGHT have been, had either NYCTS, BoT, or the TA decided to extend rapid transit service several stations beyond Dyre Avenue, into former "Westchester" territory.

The fares, surely, would have been cheaper than commuting into the city via either the NYC or the NH (parent company of the NYW&B); perhaps, too, this line might have utilized a "double fare", as did the Rockaway line from 1956 through 1975.

Of course, after the War, there was not much in the coffers for the extension of any subway lines (with the Rockaway line being the notable exception); this, coupled with NIMBY opposition, politics, etc, I feel, all played part in keeping the Dyre Avenue line "in the dark" for so many years.....

"NYO"

["9 Dyre Avenue"]


Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Thu May 05, 2022 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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N4 Jamaica




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Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please note that this is the rear of a northbound car, with Columbia University at the right. One odd thing about this operation on an important section of Broadway was that the passengers boarded and exited on the traffic side even though the cars had double center doors on the left side. This dangerous choice was apparently made to protect revenue and also because autos were forbidden to pass loading/unloading streetcars.
---
On the final night of service, I sat on the rear motorman's wooden paddle. PCC's provided more comfortable seats for operators.
---
These cars did not get close to PCC standards. When the 65th street carbarn's craftsmen turned out the next batch, they came without center doors. I believe that the cost of each car was below $1,000 as many parts were reused from older cars.
---
One innovative detail was that the operator let UP on the spring-loaded brake pedal to apply brakes. In effect this was a dead man's control. You can do this at Branford on TARS 629.
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe:

Always appreciate your personal memories; thamks for sharing. Wink

Earlier, what I meant about the "modern" TARS cars being the closest they ever got to PCC's, was that this was as MODERN that TARS rolling stock was ever going to get, in no uncertain terms.

You mentioned the PCC's; this makes me wonder why the B&QT's "modern" single-ended 6000's (these were the updated, single-ended Peter Witts) were retired earlier than the older, double-ended Peter Witts (8000 series).

The PCC's, of course, had the advantage over most other Brooklyn streetcars, in that they could be operated by one man, and did not require a conductor.....

"NYO"

["68 Smith"]
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2022 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, in 1937, surplus TARS cars of the 701-850 series traveled via carfloat to Queens, where they operated in STEINWAY service for two years, until all streetcar operations ended.

These cars had previously operated on Manhattan's conduit lines, as well as overhead trolley wire lines in both the Bronx and in New Rochelle.

When STEINWAY ended streetcar operations, its segment over the QB was sold to the QUEENSBORO BRIDGE Ry., which intended to operate second-hand STEINWAY rolling stock.

However, the City of New York decided that these older streetcars had to be modified for "safe bridge operation".

While these cars were being upgraded, TARS leased the bridge railway company some of its newer cars as temporary replacements.

Some of these upgrades included the changing from two to four motors per car, and the addition of a safety light just beneath the headlight.....

"NYO"

["Queensboro Bridge Ry."]
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