BusTalk

[N4 Jamaica]

You are right about the Interborough. My sole experiences with trolley poles on L cars date from a brief trip to Chicago about 1962. Dad and I rode the Lake St. L while the embankment route was being constructed. At our first station at ground level, the conductor went through the train, raising the poles. On the same visit, we rode the Electroliner. Soon after leaving Howard and at running speed, the conductor raised the pole or poles, wherever they were.
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My one quibble about the Interborough is that the company owned the trolley line under the Jerome Avenue el during construction. When the elevated line reached Woodlawn, the streetcar was cut back and ultimately became Yonkers Railway route 4. In Bronx history that is a rare history of el replacing streetcar, which also happened on a portion of McDonald Ave.

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Joe:

Thanks for providing interesting input, as always.

Funny you mentioned Chicago; the "SKOKIE SWIFT" (which uses part of the abandoned North Shore ROW) utilized overhead catenary (using bow collectors) until fairly recently.

Some of the venerable 4000's used trolley poles on one line into the early 1970's.

The INTERBOROUGH's elevated lines (the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 9th Avenue lines), of course, never entered Brooklyn; the 2nd Avenue El, of course, until 1942, entered Queens via the QB.

One thing about the INTERBOROUGH and the Els, something I always wondered about), was why they never had any sort of crosstown elevated line on 125th St.; recall, W. 125th St. had landings for the Edgewater Ferry (this ferry originally operated out of 125th St.), as well as landings for the DAY LINE and the IRON STEAMBOAT COMPANY's boats to Coney Island.

Ironically, after WW2, BMT El cars DID operate on an INTERBOROUGH El line (the 3rd Avenue El); the "Q" cars replaced the old IRT Composites about 1950, and, in fact, utilized their trucks, as the old BMT trucks would have made the ex-BMT cars too heavy for the El......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Joe:

Here are two views of CTA's "SKOKIE SWIFT", back when overhead wires were still used; articulated unit were also once used on this line.

The catenary towers had originally been used by NORTH SHORE interurban trains, until 1963.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?14457

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?14599

(coutesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's a few old photos of CTA's famed 4000 series, equipped with poles......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?14577

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?14538

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?14586

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Note the trolley poles on these old BMT gate cars at the elevated storage yard, adjacent to the Sands Street station complex......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?113232

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

In this circa-1910 photo taken on the Brooklyn Bridge (looking west) we see a Park Row-bound BRT Fulton line train, heading towards the Park Row terminal.

As you can see, headways on the El lines out of Park Row were quite short; also, note the streetcars on the right, in the background.

Note the El cars equipped with trolley poles, for surface operation......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?27214

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

This photo of an elevated gate car train at Boerum Place, Brooklyn, dates to 1906; again, note the trolley poles.

Also, note the Hall "banjo signal" to the left of the train......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116197

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

In Chicago, the heavy interurban trains of the CA&E and the CNS&M entered The Loop via the "L"; the elevated structure, obviously, was substantial enough to carry the weight of the heavier interurban cars.

In New York, early on, there had been talk of routing trains of the NYW&B onto the 2nd or 3rd Avenue El,, allowing the MU trains access to Manhattan (remember, the lack of direct Manhattan access was one of the situations that eventually led to the NYW&B's abandonment in 1937)

Had the NYW&B's trains been able to travel downtown on the 2nd or 3rd Avenue El, it would afforded "Westchester" commuters a one-seat ride all the way into the business and financial districts of midtown and lower Manhattan, much like the Chicago interurbans entering the Loop via the "L".

However, such an endeavor would have been extremely costly, and would have involved rebuilding the El structures to accommodate the heavy steel NYW&B MU's, shaving back station platforms to handle the wider cars, etc.

In an odd twist, in 1941, surplus wooden gate elevated cars from the 2nd Avenue line were refurbished and then assigned to the new Dyre Avenue line, which utilized the abandoned NYW&B row in the Bronx.

Oddly enough, this unique line was operated as a part of the IND, even though the cars were ex-INTERBOROUGH!

These wooden cars ran until well into the 1950's, when they were replaced with elderly steel IRT "Hi-V" cars.

The old "Hi-V's", in turn, were retired in 1957, when (finally!) the Dyre Avenue line was connected to the IRT's "main lines", allowing through service from Brooklyn to Dyre Avenue, for the first time.......

"NYO"

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

See also:

https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/New_York,_Westchester,_and_Boston_Railway

https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/IRT_White_Plains_Road_Line

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here are two refurbished ex-2nd Avenue El cars at the former NYW&B station at Baychester Avenue (1941)

Note that the former NYW&B express tracks are still in place; also, note the old catenary tower, now minus wires.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?81245

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Wooden elevated gate cars and steel "Hi-V" subway cars at the ex-NYW&B station at Morris Park.

The station house at this location, as well as several other ex-"Westchester" station houses, still serve IRT trains today, looking much as they did over 100 year ago.......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?28617

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?26659

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's an impressive publicity photo of a train* of new (1912) NYW&B (note the Stillwell roofs**) MU's at E. 3rd St.

This short-lived electric railroad was most impressive and up-to-date for its time, featuring modern, high-speed electric trains and monumental station houses.

Outside of the IRT's Dyre Avenue line, virtually nothing remains of this once-impressive electric railway, outside of the Bronx.........

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?18931

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

*Though multiple-car NYW&B trains were commonplace during rush hours, one- and two-car trains were the norm, during off-peak hours.

On the SIRT, during the ME-1 era, most trains on the long-abandoned Arlington and South Beach branches were single car; on the main line to Tottenville, two-car trains were the norm, during non-rush hours.

**The earliest ERIE Stillwell commuter coaches (1915) also were equipped with end porthole motorman's windows, as the ERIE was then planning to electrify its suburban commuter lines out of Jersey City (Pavonia Avenue)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

In thee 1950's views, gate cars and "Hi-V's" are seen here at the former NYW&B station at E. 180th St......

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?24435

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?45177

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?75937

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here's a train of R-21 IRT cars, taken in 1962, approaching the former NYW&B station at E. 180th Street.

By this time, the former Dyre Avenue shuttle was tied into the IRT "main line".....

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?132596

(courtesy: nycsubway.org)

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here is an excellent page on the NYW&B; thi includes a historical overview, a station-by-station guide, and photo gallery (also, route maps)

There is also a list of the various rapid transit, streetcar, bus, and main-line railroad connections available at certain "Westchester" stations.

Much of interest, here.......

www.nywbry.com