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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22622
Location: NEW JOISEY
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 Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| W.B. Fishbowl wrote: | | NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 wrote: | ....we have often talked about the lack of photo coverage/lack of interest in FACCo Fishbowls; a good example of this is the FACCo gallery at nycsubway.org......not surprisingly, there is not ONE Fishbowl photo to be seen. 
At least, to Mr. Martin's credit, there are TWO FACCo Fishbowl photos in his book....... 
"NYO" |
I have tried, where possible, to redress this imbalance by putting up whatever photos can be found of FACL and ST Fishbowls in operation at the outset. |
W.B.:
That you have been able to find ANY photos of FACCo/SURFACE Fishbowls to post here indeed shows you as an enthusiast/historian who wants the WHOLE story told.
Surely, many years ago, there had to be other enthusiasts in New York who documented the early days of FACCo/SURFACE Fishbowl operations.....BUT....where are those photos today?
Our good friend MaBSTOA 15 has also been VERY adept at posting some truly rare photos here (I certainly would not mind seeing a photo or two show the Fishbowls of FACCo/SURFACE at their respective garages, either)..... 
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22622
Location: NEW JOISEY
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22622
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:10 am Post subject: |
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MaBSTOA #8325 at Grand Concourse & Fordham, circa-1970.
I'm guessing that the old circular "BUS STOP" sign dates back to the SURFACE era......
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155562
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22622
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Date this classic MaBSTOA Fishbowl photo to 1969 (Broadway & 96th).......
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?155824
(courtesy: nycsubway.org)
Currently, 1969 is the furthest you can go back in time, regarding MaBSTOA photos in the nycsubway.org bus galleries.
Obviously, there were enthusiasts were taking MaBSTOA photos BEFORE 1969, so, you have to wonder.......WHERE are are earlier photos? 
"NYO" |
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N4 Jamaica
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Regarding 8325, that bus stop was a very busy morning location ever since the Independent opened the Concourse Line in 1933, in the two-nickel era. People from Pelham Parkway could ride the newer and faster Independent. When fares went up in 1948, at first the bus drivers refused to sell five-cent transfers to the subway. I took a photo, now lost, of a Board of Transportation fellow selling transfers to passengers exiting the back door. Maybe the fire plug was in the way even then. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22622
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| N4 Jamaica wrote: | | Regarding 8325, that bus stop was a very busy morning location ever since the Independent opened the Concourse Line in 1933, in the two-nickel era. People from Pelham Parkway could ride the newer and faster Independent. When fares went up in 1948, at first the bus drivers refused to sell five-cent transfers to the subway. I took a photo, now lost, of a Board of Transportation fellow selling transfers to passengers exiting the back door. Maybe the fire plug was in the way even then. |
Joe:
Appreciate your input, as always; this is interesting to know.
When the fares went up on July 1, 1947, many additional free transfer points were established between the IRT, BMT, and IND. Wherever practical, barriers were torn down, so that subway riders could transfer between the three divisions.
The DAILY NEWS quipped: "....today, IRT sheep mingled with BMT goats......"
By 1948, the TARS streetcars in Manhattan had already been gone for some time, replaced with SURFACE buses; the last Bronx TARS streetcar routes also were replaced with SURFACE buses that year......
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22622
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a gloomy (undated) view of TARS Garden Avenue yard; note elderly front-engined bus being towed in the background......
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?117210
(courtesy: nycsubway.org) |
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N4 Jamaica
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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I must correct your year.
"When the fares went up on July 1, 1947, many additional free transfer points were established between the IRT, BMT, and IND. Wherever practical, barriers were torn down, so that subway riders could transfer between the three divisions."
Sorry, the date was July 1, 1948.
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The catch is surface rates. We need Mr. Linsky to unravel that history, or perhaps it can be found by searching BusTalk archives. The bus and streetcar fares rose by pennies, some to 7 cents, some to 8 cents. At first the combined cost (subway/bus) was 12 cents.
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I scooted around the subway system, dropping two pennies in the transfer machines to get the transfer marked for that station.
At some point, a transfer machine was installed behind the driver on Surface Transportation. For a nickel, you got a generic dated Globe ticket to the subway. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22622
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Joe:
I got that date (1947) from Brian Cudahy's "UNDER THE SIDEWALKS OF NEW YORK" (top of page 115); many times, it is hard to get correct dates regarding bygone transit, even when a publication is done by a very knowledgeable author/historian.
Our late friend Mr. Linsky was always most invaluable in helping us locate the proper historical data and facts; he is still very sorely missed.
Speaking of "barriers" between subway divisions, I remember, well through the 80's, before the fare control was totally modernized at the main entrance to the subway from the PABT, how there was then no free transfer between the IND and the IRT (once you were within IRT fare control, the long passageway leading east would also bring you to the BMT.
The entrance to the IND platform (downtown) still used the original wooden-arm IND turnstiles; I passed through those IND and IRT turnstiles many years, back in the old days, when I was working downtown.......
"NYO"
Last edited by NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629 on Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22622
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Another undated TARS photo, showing car #1201 working the "W" line; note the front-engine bus on the left........
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116722
(courtesy: nycsubway.org) |
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N4 Jamaica
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The westbound bus passing Rogers Department store was before my 1940's memory. It could have been Surface Transportation on the Pelham Parkway route or a Reservoir black-and-white bus from Boston Post Road. Reservoir also at times used the name Fordham Transit or West Fordham Transit. By the time I rode that route to Playland, Rye, they were using new post-war Macks. |
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N4 Jamaica
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| The westbound bus passing Rogers Department store was before my 1940's memory. It could have been Surface Transportation on the Pelham Parkway route or a Reservoir black-and-white bus from Boston Post Road. Reservoir also at times used the name Fordham Transit or West Fordham Transit. By the time I rode that route to Playland, Rye, they were using new post-war Macks. |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22622
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| N4 Jamaica wrote: | | The westbound bus passing Rogers Department store was before my 1940's memory. It could have been Surface Transportation on the Pelham Parkway route or a Reservoir black-and-white bus from Boston Post Road. Reservoir also at times used the name Fordham Transit or West Fordham Transit. By the time I rode that route to Playland, Rye, they were using new post-war Macks. |
Joe:
It could be me, but that bus looks to be a "parlor coach" (did SURFACE ever operate any in any sort of special charter services?)
SURFACE did have some interesting three-axle buses, that had originally built aas double-deckers.
Of course, back in those days, they also operated those unusual VERSARE buses......
"NYO" |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22622
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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This interesting photo bears re-posting here:
Here we see #TARS 207 on the "C" line, at Fordham & Arthur; note the old front-engined bus on the right (NOT a SURFACE bus!)
Sure wish we could read the destination signs......
https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?116596
(courtesy: nycsubway.org) |
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NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629
BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Posts: 22622
Location: NEW JOISEY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Until 1948, IND subway riders could transfer directly to TARS streetcars (which used an underpass) at 167th Street and the Grand Concourse.
This page features both historical information and photos......
www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/167st.html |
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