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Dieseljim Deceased
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 548 Location: Perry, NY
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:55 am Post subject: Why NFT Bus NO.1000 was a One of A Kind |
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If anyone ever wondered why NFT bus No.1000, which the company built in its own shops and was successful both operationally and mechanically was a one of a kind, I offer up the theory that General Motors, which was asked bYthe Niagara Frontier Transit System to supply certain components, such as engines and transmissions refused because General Motors did not like the idea of a transit company building its own buses, which the NFT was certainly capable of doing, especially with Mack out of the picture and their dissatisfaction with their first "fishbowls" the TDH5301s, 7400-7459, which I believe was due partly to the rear window being susceptible to cracking due to the roof shimmy and the company felt they could build a better bus themselves. While I never saw this bus in service during my time in the Buffalo area, I did ride plenty of 'fishbowls, including most of the ex Buffalo Transit 700s and a couple Macks, which I liked. Those Macks were quiet as compared to the GMs. Had NFT went on to build more copies of the NO.1000 bus, it would not have surprised me to find other transit properties doing the same thing, thus jeopardizing GM's investment in the transit bus business. On that Basis, General Motors was not about to supply NFT the rope with which to hang GM . |
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Mr. Linsky BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 5071 Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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I will say this much for Niagara Frontier; they did a beautiful job on the updated 'New Look' front end that Mack adopted (by license) back in 1959.
Unfortunately, the timing was bad because Mack almost immediately ceased bus manufacturing.
At the time, GM refused to sell parts of any kind to any other bus manufacturer or fabricator which resulted in the anti-trust case brought against them and eventually won by Flxible.
Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY
Bee Line Long Island New York |
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Dieseljim Deceased
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 548 Location: Perry, NY
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: Photo of Bee Line Mack |
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That Mack signed FREEPORT has the New Look front end mated to the Old Look body. I can tell by the windows. The old look Macks had standee windows above the main window, which opened from the bottom of the sash. NFT's 6300 series Macks had two piece drop sash windows mated to the same style body. Thus, Buffalo's 6300 series Macks were cosmetically a different beast from other Macks with the New Look front end. |
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Mr. Linsky BusTalk's Offical Welcoming Committee
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 5071 Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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D. J.,
Mack did make several variations of a suburban style on a posr war transit frame and referred to them as S's instead of C's.
There were also variations in the window styles; the one and only S-45-DT was operated by Orange and Black, a large commuter property in New Jersey and the high windows moved horizontally instead of vertically.
Lakeland Bus Lines bought five C-45-SDT's in which the lower quarter of the window was stationary and the top three quarters moved horizontilly.
On the other hand, Public Service Coordinated Transport of New Jersey bought a number with traditional drop sashes.
Mack made very few Suburbans and I have seen none with the NFT front ends.
Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, NY |
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HwyHaulier
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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D.J. - Mr. Linsky -
I haven't been on in a while. On sign in today, I was delighted to see this topic of the elusive NFT #1000. I lived in Buffalo at the time the line built
it. Local press supplied with various and excited releases. IIRC, I did ride it once. Seems to me, NFT favored its use on #8 - Main.
NFT and the New Look MACK coaches. Quite an impressive piece of equipment. It was a great effort, but there was so little of a market at date.
Another great effort, too little too late, and not on NFT: The WHITE 1150-WD types. A solid piece of equipment. (Okay. My thinking, once many lines
went so heavy into new equipment just post WWII, it closed the door on any real waves of new buy until twenty years out.)
Finally, noted D.J. comments that NFT wasn't entirely impressed with the early GM T&C TDH-5301 types. Funny you should mention. I rode early
ones on D C Transit. Perceptions at the time; the coachwork had a certain, elusive tackiness and carelessness to it.
.....................Vern............. |
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Dieseljim Deceased
Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 548 Location: Perry, NY
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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:20 am Post subject: NFT1000 Does Bus Still Exist, If So, It Should be Preserved |
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While we are on the subject of the NFT#1000, I can't help but wonder if that bus still exists. If so, it should be preserved and it belongs in a museum. I doubt if successor NFTA has the capability of doing what the NFT shop personnel did and that was build a bus of their own design, since many of the people involved with the NFT 1000 are either long since retired or deceased. I would have loved to have ridden on it to find out what it was like. I did ride one each of the 6200 and 6300 series Macks though and was quite impressed with the Macks.Several Macks lasted as late as 1979 and I remember riding a 6300 about that late date. |
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HwyHaulier
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 932 Location: Harford County, MD
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Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Why NFT Bus NO.1000 was a One of A Kind |
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Dieseljim -
Back to the lead line of questions. NFT was working its own agenda. We can guess it had its reasons to run a bit of a poker game on
GMC T&C. With the "Coach 1000" project, NFT accompanied it with a number of most positive and glowing press releases, which promptly
appeared in the local papers, and likely on TV coverage, too.
At the same time, of course, there was the long running, civic Boost Buffalo campaign. Any news of possible added employment in Buffalo
was most welcome. But, a nagging point in the NFT promotion, claimed costs saving didn't appear to be so significant as to warrant all
the efforts to do it.
So, we are to conclude the work was abandoned as NFT could not secure Detroit Diesel power plants? It doesn't add up. Was NFT
admitting it fell for the DD Mystique, and nothing else would do? One would think they had other strategies in its plan? They could just
as readily have used power plants from other vendors? Cummins had proven motors available, and had been used by White and ACF-Brill.
The Brits could provide Leyland power. Possibility of interest by CAT, too?
Beats me. From this late date, it looks more that NFT was running a bit of a ploy on GMC T&C...
....................Vern............... |
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TheDriver
Joined: 18 Dec 2015 Posts: 233 Location: America
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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and Cummins was the better engine
CAT does not belong on a road vehicle
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