BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

frankie,

Regarding your Ensenada bus; it is unquestionably an early 4509 as evidenced by virtue of the equal widths of the single passenger sashes to either side of the rear door.

It wasn't until late 1949 or very early 1950 that hairline cracks found in the roofs of New York City's 4510's caused a production change at Pontiac to strengthen the roofs of 4509's which resulted in a narrower single window just forward of the rear door.

Aside from that clue, the louvers under the engine fresh air cowl over the rear quarter window is another dead giveaway.

The dual headlamps were definitely after market.

BTW; it looks as though an extra pair of decorative stainless steels wings, which have been painted white, appear under the windshield which would have been an oddity on a 4509.

One final note; I believe the road clearance is the same on the 4509 and 4512 models which was higher than previous squared window Old Looks due to the introduction of the Hydraulic V transmission.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

From north of the border and standing at its facility at Fort Street in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada in 1956 we see fleet number 157 - a 1944 36 passenger GM Coach Model TG 3608 (hydraulic) and one of ten likenesses numbered 150 to 159 operating for the Winnipeg Transit Commission but originally purchased by predecessor Winnipeg Electric Company.

#157, along with 199 other TG 3608's built in 1944, were among the first buses produced at Pontiac after a one year hiatus in which the factory concentrated on the making of military equipment and, with the shortage of what were normally readily available hardware items, improvisations took place as seen in #157's unusual curved edged passenger sashes.

To this writer's knowledge, only the eighty one specially built TG-3603's that went to St. Louis in 1940 used a similar frame.

Note that our focus is still clad in thin steel panels in place of scarce aluminum as evidenced by two swipe moldings between the wheel wells.

#157 and its siblings eventually found a second home in the city of Moose Jaw in the far north territory of Saskatchewan.

Photo taken by Peter Cox and borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Mr. Linsky]

Seen in route between Alton and Wood River Illinois sometime in the fifties is fleet # 35 - a 45 passenger GM Coach Model TDH 4512 built between 1953 and 1959 and operating for the Wood River - Alton Bus Lines, Inc.

While the company did purchase two new 4512's numbered 106 and 108 in June of 1954, no record is shown for the original purchase of the focus so the presumption is that it was bought used.

The only standout oddity about #35 which, is shown either brand spanking new or completely restored, is the set of GM stainless steel wings under the windshield set in length to accommodate directional signals which are not present on the focus and really not easily explained.

At Green Line (NY), the kits that arrived from GM to update the company's TD 4506 front ends contained wings of full length for buses without directional signals and could be cut back to signal length as specified in the accompanying instruction sheets.

This one is truly a mystery!

Photo courtesy of 'mrtimemachine' and is available on eBay as item # 251441785824.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[timecruncher]

Linsky - that is a beauty (great orange & beige color arrangement). I would suggest that if it is a restoration, the turn signal bezels and such were badly rusted and the restorer did not realize that they needed to be restored completely to make the bus complete.

Or, there could have simply been front-end damage at one time and when it was repaired, the front badge and trim was ordered in the wrong size for the coach.

timecruncher

[Mr. Linsky]

[frankie]

Perhaps I can shed a little more light on the subject at hand.

That shot was taken in front of the old Oak Grove Inn just north of Edwardsville. The inn - no longer open, is located on 7352 Illinois Rte 140 at the SW corner of Barrenfinger Rd.

Studying the license plate dates it as an 1955 orange on black issue considering the font type as well as the position of Land of Lincoln and Illinois (this changes year after year), plus the fact the this was the next to last year that "Front" and "Back" were part of the vertical numbering format plus B/U/S.

I can not answer why there are no directional signals, but I think it's safe to say that this bus was probably ordered that way considering it has to be less than 2 years old when the photo was taken.

As with most private Illinois bus companies in Metro East St. Louis, WR&ABL was absorbed into the Bi-State Development System in 1963. I'm sure this bus changed uniforms and renumbered into the new system.

Frankie

[Mr. Linsky]

[frankie]

Probably the only one off hand built old look that may be considered an odd orphan with so many unusual features, that we once again feature this well known bus with an unusual history.

The experimental TD-5401 completed in December 1940 was suppose to be Yellow's single level answer to the double decker. Originally designated as a TD-5501 in the design stage, it was reduced to 54 seats due to a 12 inch clear aisle requirement to the emergency door as dictated by law in New York state.

Aside from St. Louis' unusual TG-3603 and TG-4006 that were built to look like PCC cars, the 5401 incorporated many unusual features that most certainly places it in the "oddity" category. Notably, the double front bumpers, double wide entrance doors, the 43 inch length which made this the longest bus in revenue service up until the advent of Chicago's TDH-5502 in 1948, the oval side window behind the driver's seat and another oddball rarely seen on buses - a second side destination sign behind the rear door (with proper standee window). I'm sure the lucky driver had to remember to change both destination signs.

This bus may be the only bus to have the distinction to morph into another model number (and new badge name) by the factory when it was cut down to 40 feet and relabeled as the TD-5001 thus producing another oddity - having the distinction of being the one and only 40 foot GM bus with squared windows.

If there ever was an old look bus that well deserved the "red logo badge" award as being an oddity, this is high on the list of candidates, if not the top one.

Frankie

Photo courtesy of Guy E. Martin for educational purposes.

[Mr. Linsky]

Seen somewhere in the environs of Houston, Texas in the early fifties is fleet # 19865 - a 1953 51 passenger GM Coach Modeled as a TDH 5106 and one of five likenesses purchased in increments between 1953 and 1958 by the Shell Oil Company of that Lone Star State city.

Our focus was very obviously equipped for the hot and humid southern tier as evidenced by its double set of floor vents under the windshield, a cooling bonnet covering the Thermo-Matic intake over the destination sign and a set of six fresh air vents on the roof usually only seen on non Thermo-Matic Old Looks.

# 19865 is signed for Garden Villas - a residential subdivision on the banks of Sims Bayou just north of Houston's Hobby Airport and was undoubtedly where many of Shell's employees resided.

Photo courtesy of '4509bus' and is available at eBay as item # 371014844721.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

I'll betcha that if the photo was in color, that bus would be a bright yellow with a red roof.

Frankie

[Mr. Linsky]

[Mr. Linsky]

Seen in September of 1979 at an Academy Bus facility in Hoboken is fleet #29 - a 1956 45 passenger GM Coach modeled as a TDH 4512 operating for Albert F. Bauer of Union, New Jersey.

We've seen many attempts by operators to seal transit rear doors to gain two additional seats which is what appears to be apparent on our focus.

This attempt, however, is worthy of special praise because of its well thought out and interesting adaption which might lead someone to believe that it was merely a railroad car style sliding door.

It appears that the Bauer company contracted equipment to other operators as noted by #29's destination sign and was geared for school assignments - I do stand corrected on this point and welcome any further information.

Photo courtesy of '4509bus' and is available at eBay as item # 351017954326.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

[NorthShore]

[frankie]