BusTalk

[frankie]

Mr. L and all: I believe 2500 only operated in New York and Chicago and no other city. The timeline I was able to established shows that it operated in New York until late 1946 before being sent to Chicago. It was returned to Pontiac sometime in 1947 before delivery to New York as the TDH-5001. 2500 spent the war years in Manhattan as evident by the blacked out headlamps in the top picture.

I don't believe 2500 spent very much time in Chicago, probably less than a year before being sent back for downsizing. It probably got it's 1946 white on green G class truck plate in the latter part of that year before receiving a set of '47 tags. Just a guess.

Regarding Greller's photo of 2500 signed for the Tompkins Avenue route, the second photo shows a better image. Most likely it was poised at the Williamsburgh Bridge Plaza.

Frankie

Photos & info courtesy of Oliver Ogden from his book on FACCO for educational purposes.

[Mr. Linsky]

Here's an interesting bit of information the origin of which I remember clearly from law school;

There was and may still be a Federal statute on the books concerning the sale of new motor vehicles which stated that a new motor vehicle (no specification as to type) used as demonstration may be sold to an eventual buyer as 'new' providing that the registration certificate reflect the fact that it was a demo, and further may reflect the year of sale as the year of manufacture.

As wild as that seems, it also stated that at the time of sale the dealer or manufacturer could return the odometer to zero!

This brings about an interesting question concerning FACCO's #2500 registration certificate; according to the above it should have read;
'1948 GMC (wasn't Yellow any more) Truck and Coach Model TD 5001'.

I wonder what it really did read?

BTW; here's a shot of #2500 during its years in Westchester all spiffied up with a shiny new bumper, recessed headlamps and properly placed after market directional signals - enjoy! (it makes me sick to think that this never survived for preservation!).

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[frankie]

[Mr. Linsky]

I knew of and previously wrote about the eighty exclusively designated and custom built Yellow Coach Model TG 3603's (lower photo) delivered to the St. Louis Public Service Company in late 1940.

However, I was unaware that the company ordered another sixty of similar design but of greater capacity in 1941 which were also given an exclusive model number which was TD 4006.

Seen (upper photo) in late 1954 at the company's South 39th. Street and Park Avenue facility in St. Louis is fleet number 4892 - a 1941 Yellow Coach Model TD 4006 and one of sixty likenesses numbered 4840 to 4899 delivered late in that year.

Both models were designed by St. Louis engineers to copy as closely as possible their fleet of PCC trolley cars and included 'wind down' passenger windows, the first use by Yellow of an angled windshield (which was immediately adopted to a lesser degree of angle in future production), bold golden glow headlamps and a trolley like center light within a set of wings just below an ornately shaped windshield frame.

Of note is the placement of the side destination signs under the second passenger windows (painted out on # 4892).

Focusing on # 4892, note that the once ventilated engine bonnets have been sealed with sheet metal possibly as a noise abatement effort and the fact that the body is of war time all steel construction as evidenced by the double side swipe moldings between the wheel wells.

Credit for photo within frame and taken by Jim Ozment.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[frankie]

[Old Look 4007]

Mr. L,

Thanks to much for posting a pic of a Yellow with bolted on engine screen vent covers!

A very rare picture to be sure.

It's unfortunate hardly anyone posts pics of the REAR of old buses.

Great job.

Jeff (Old Look 4007)

[Mr. Linsky]

Old Look 4007,

You're quite welcome.

Very few photos have ever been taken of the rear ends of buses and that's unfortunate because, in some cases, it can be very helpful in identifying a model phase or year.

For instance; the first TDH 4509's used the same large 'STOP' lights as did earlier models but in its second or third production phase (about 1952) they were modernized to what was later seen on the 4512 models.



frankie,

The front end treatment on St. Louis # 4892 did cross my mind but I assumed (and you know what happens when you assume!) that it probably was the same as # 4900's because GM must still have had the special dies.

BTW; according to the Motor Bus Society Directory of Preserved Coaches dated October 1989, St. Louis # 4878, a TD 4006-039, has been preserved by the National Museum of Transport in St. Louis.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

Here's a good full side shot of St. Louis # 4892 (same time, same location and same photographer).

BTW; at the time the photo was exposed, # 4892 was carrying the flag of National City Lines, Inc. but was maintaining its own livery scheme instead of that company's 'Fruit Salad' design.

I wonder why?

Enjoy,

Mr. 'L'

[buslist]

[frankie]

Many old looks were exported to South American countries and Peru was no exception. Once they've outlived their useful life for the intended city, they become hand me downs to smaller bus companies and once those buses are no longer needed, they are handed down again. I've noticed that many old looks tend to loose their physical identity each time they trade hands as South Americans tend to modify them - probably for the reason of necessity from lack of parts.

This 4500 series GM has been heavily modified into a mobile canteen with roof signboards and full side advertising. Small wheels have replaced the original ones. If you closely, you can see the outline of the original front wheel well opening. This is indeed one looking odd GM bus!

Frankie

Photo courtesy of forosperu.net for educational purposes

[Mr. Linsky]

frankie,

Great photo to add to our 'odd ball' collection!

I've noticed a couple of interesting oddities;

A shallow awning over the passenger windows obviously hides what were the standee glasses.

The seventh passenger sash, which on standard 4500's was narrower, is now full size along with the rear doorway which has been reduced in width.

While they removed the headlamps, they left the original signal fixtures and the rear quarter window appears to have been replaced with a vent probably for a cooking stove.

I'm wondering where this bus originated from!

Attached is an interest specimen from San Francisco;

Pictured below is fleet number 197 – a 1946 GM Model TG 3609 operating for San Francisco Bay Area Gray Line Sightseeing Company as a mobile ticket office but was originally part of a 45 bus order (fleet #’s 1300 to 1344) delivered to the Key System Transit Lines of Oakland, California.

Of note are the larger than normal arrows in the directional signals fixtures that I don't believe were factory.

Credit with frame.

Regards,

Mr. 'L

[Old Look 4007]

Mr L,

Thanks for the TG3609 pic showing engine vents!

They made so many modifications years ago on those buses, it's
hard to determine what was stock.

Enjoyable photo.

Jeff

[frankie]

Today we head up north to Cuba where we see another unusual bus. Not a GM old look in origin, but what looks like a home made mini bus using old look components - namely the doors and window sashes including what looks like an old look driver's side window used up front on both sides.

Cuba is a treasure trove for old American buses including Aerocoaches, AFC-Brills and Fitzjohns. Perhaps a new thread for the forum titled for Latin American US buses is a consideration. For now, enjoy this nifty photo.

Frankie

Photo courtesy from Flicker Rogali's Photostream for educational purposes

[Mr. Linsky]

frankie,

Collectively, Cuban operators bought over 200 new GM TDH 4512's so they had plenty of old parts to work with when they became embargoed from buying anything new from the U.S.

Your unbelievable photo of the mini bus above certainly proves that!

To go one step further, take a gander at the Cuban 'home made' passenger train below and guess what that's made out of!

Photo by Paul Hunnel

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]