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'VINTAGE NEW YORK CITY'
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yc720_06



Age: 86
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 19
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:02 am    Post subject: Fifth Avenue Coach Company Garage Reply with quote

Hi again Mr "L".
Correction to my recent message. The bodies for the 'A' type were also built at 102nd Street garage, not by Brill.
Coincidentally, I found a similar photo of the buses at the 85th Street garage, taken at the same time and the roster number of the rear bus in the middle row is 20, a 1908 De Dion Bouton with a Brill type 'D' body.
Apologies for my earlier error.
Best regards,
Malcolm
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Malcolm,

If I haven't already done so, welcome to Bus Talk and your comments from way off in Scotland are greatly appreciated (one of my grandmothers was born in Glascow so I've always considered myself one quarter Scotch!).

Thank you for your advice on the ancient Fifth Avenue equipment.

I guess that if I were able to have seen the fronts of the buses which, by your description, would have more resembled the attachment below, they would have been easier to identify.

The rears of all double deckers of that era looked alike and I would have thought that by the mid twenties any remnants of Fifth Avenue's pre 1917 European models would have been long gone.

Best regards,

Mr. 'L'

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Mr. Linsky
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never knew that the New York City Omnibus Corporation (NYCO) sent any bus anywhere but to the junk heap when they were through with it but I was wrong.

Seen sometime after 1943 in a Public Service Coordinated Transport (PSCT) of New Jersey yard is fleet # 1450 - a 1935 Yellow Coach Model 728 and one of fifteen numbered between 1450 and 1464 that PSCT purchased used in 1943 from NYCO (#1450 was formerly NYCO's # 511).

It makes sense that NYCO would have sold off these 32 passenger buses prematurely in view of the fact that they had already begun to purchase higher capacity 40 and 44 passenger jobs to accommodate the ever burgeoning populations on their Manhattan routes.

Of course, the question remains as to where NYCO's other 253 728's wound up but that's another story which will need some investigation!

Another wonderful image from my friend Bruce K. at eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1764
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's quite a find, Mr. L!
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob,

Thanks.

I've searched PSNJ records going all the way back and these fifteen buses are the only ones that ever came from NYCO.

This brings up an interesting point that I have been complaining about for years with Motor Coach Age.

Motor Coach Age magazine is the best of its ilk hands down but misses the mark in not listing the final dispositions of buses in the rosters of the companies that they feature.

To me, where a company's surplus buses have gone is just as important as where they came from - it completes the story and makes tracking the equipment much easier.

As an example; in Alan Bromberger's (may his soul rest in piece) Green Bus Lines article in 2000, he used copies of the very same official documents that had been willed to me by the late Don Weiss of the Motor Bus Society that included the final disposition of virtually every bus Green Line ever had and he never used that information.

Go figure!

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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Mr. Linsky
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taken on a warm July day in 1965 in the environs of our nations capital, we see fleet number 4301 - a 1951 GM Coach Model TDH 4509 and one of eighteen 4509's purchased used by D.C. Transit in 1961.

As ex # 332, # 4301 and its seventeen siblings hailed from the Queens, New York property of the Steinway Transit Corporation along with seven 4509's and thirteen 5104's from commonly owned Queens Transit Corporation.

Queens/Steinway bus watchers will note the signature split sashes and custom directional signals carried on all of their 4509's.

The livery seen on # 4301 and all of D.C.'s pre New Look equipment of the time frame first appeared on a GM TDH 5105 Air Conditioned demonstrator and was so well liked by D.C. officials that it was adopted and used to introduce sixty-six copies of the demo for them in 1958 - the first production air conditioned transits from GM.

Many thanks to Bruce K. of eBay for the great photo.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At layover somewhere in The Bronx, New York in a chillier season of 1967 is fleet number 1510 - a 1947 GM Coach Model TDH 4507 dressed in the uniform of the Manhattan and Bronx Surface Transit Operating Authority (MABSTOA) but originally purchased as one of 403 4507's numbered from 1197 to 1599 by the Surface Transportation System of New York (STS) between 1946 and 1948.

# 1510 is in amazing condition for its age considering its years of neglect under STS rule and the fact that most of its siblings had long since met their demises at the hands of the crusher.

The 403 TDH 4507's purchased by Surface, which was one of the largest single orders to any operator, featured split sash passenger windows, outward opening front doors, rear door treadle steps, city type Golden Glow headlamps and unique 'Backing' fixtures in sync with audible buzzers.

Surface, which became an subsidiary of Fifth Avenue Coach in the mid fifties, was taken over along with its parent by the city in 1962.

That's one of New York's 'signature' cast iron lamp posts dating from early in the twentieth century in the background.

Photo thanks to Bruce K. of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Standing at rest sometime in 1956 along 'Pier Row' at 57th. Street and 12th. Avenue on Manhattan's west side and readying to head back east to Sutton Place on the #20 Line via 57th. Street is fleet # 1414 - a 1939 Yellow Coach Model 740 and one of thirty-five operating for the Chicago based Omnibus Corporation's Fifth Avenue Coach Company division in New York.

The 40 passenger model 740's of Fifth Avenue were powered by Detroit 6-71 Diesels engines coupled with hydraulic transmissions in the first real test of a drive train that would propel GM's Yellow Coach division to a premiere position in bus manufacture.

Sometime in the late forties a GM sponsored campaign glamorized most of the 740's operating in the New York area including those of Fifth Avenue, New York City Omnibus and Triboro Coach Corporation with angled windshields, sealed beam headlamps and 'paired window' style heavy front bumpers.

These buses were solid runners and served well into the late fifties and beyond.

Photo borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Q65A



Age: 66
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 1764
Location: Central NJ

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really interesting to see that Old Look "clip" mounted onto the front end of a 740. It makes a big difference in appearance. The 740 as built had an angular, somewhat primitive "face". That Old Look front end to me still looks very good to this day!
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Mr. Linsky
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Linsky wrote:
Taken on a warm July day in 1965 in the environs of our nations capital, we see fleet number 4301 - a 1951 GM Coach Model TDH 4509 and one of eighteen 4509's purchased used by D.C. Transit in 1961.

As ex # 332, # 4301 and its seventeen siblings hailed from the Queens, New York property of the Steinway Transit Corporation along with seven 4509's and thirteen 5104's from commonly owned Queens Transit Corporation.

Queens/Steinway bus watchers will note the signature split sashes and custom directional signals carried on all of their 4509's.

The livery seen on # 4301 and all of D.C.'s pre New Look equipment of the time frame first appeared on a GM TDH 5105 Air Conditioned demonstrator and was so well liked by D.C. officials that it was adopted and used to introduce sixty-six copies of the demo for them in 1958 - the first production air conditioned transits from GM.

Many thanks to Bruce K. of eBay for the great photo.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York




Here's a better and cleaner shot of DC Transit # 4301 thanks to the Jim Husing Collection at NorCal.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

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Hankg42



Age: 73
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 94
Location: The Villages, FL

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is interesting to see DC Transit # 4301 riding down the road with the front door open. I'm sure it's been discussed here before, but I recall that NYCTA buses had some sort of interlock feature that if the front door was open and the driver stepped on the accelerator, the bus didn''t move. I can recall buses in NJ that did not have that feature, but I'm fairly certain that prior to the new look buses, the NYCTA buses did. For sure I know the Mack C-49DTs did. Does anyone have additional information?
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frankie



Age: 77
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 745
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I remember correctly, I think the interlock feature on NYCTA buses were for the rear doors only. I do remember back in the 50's seeing buses leaving the curb before the front doors had time to close completely. I'm not too sure with the new looks.

Frankie
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankie is generally correct;

All of our GM Old Looks at Green Line (NY) had rear door interlocks but never the front and I think the reason may have had to do with a law that prohibited any mechanical impediments on that door in case of emergency.

When empty or deadheading, we often road with the front door open on very warm days to get a little more of a breeze.

A front door interlock would also have made it difficult for garage mechanics to shift the buses around and to hear certain noises in test runs.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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B53RICH




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 254

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember early TA New Looks without AC units riding with their front doors open during warm days.
I was on a TA Old Look, 7000 series one afternoon during the early 70's. The rear door interlock wasn't operating. The bus started to pull away from the bus stop while a student was still exiting.
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Hankg42



Age: 73
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 94
Location: The Villages, FL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses, fellas! Smile
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