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'VINTAGE NEW YORK CITY'
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andy47




Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Posts: 96
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These buses bounced between MABSTOA and NYCTA routes during their careers. I remember seeing one on the B68 Coney Island Ave. route in the late 60s. Judging by the open windows the AC was not working that day.
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 5071
Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a photo taken in 1939 at what is presumed to be the 146th. Street Garage of the New York City Omnibus Corporation (NYCO) we see fleet # 402 - a 1938 Yellow Coach Model 740 and one of 109 numbered between 367 and 475 operating for that division of the Chicago based Omnibus Corporation.

A subsequent order of 130 additional 740's numbered between 1500 and 1629 put NYCO in the lead as the largest single customer for this then very popular high capacity coach that included the first successful use of a Detroit 6-71 Diesel engine combined with a Spicer hydraulic transmission.

The Model 740 stood up extremely well through the war years and beyond in New York and, in fact, some were treated to face lifts as late as the early fifties to soldier on.

# 402 is poised for action on the #4 79th. Street Cross Town route which runs from the 79th. Street Boat Basin on the Hudson River through Central Park to East End Avenue on the East Side.

Photo courtesy of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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andy47




Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Posts: 96
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great shot, thanks for sharing. Many 740s in NYCO's fleet, along with similar buses of sister FACO, and Queens neighbor Triboro, were rebuilt with indented windshields and diesel engines and lasted into the 1960s.

Just one correction - the NYCO #4 route operated on Lexington Ave., 116th St., and Lenox Ave. right up to the 146th Street garage pictured. Today it is the MABSTOA M102 route. 79th St. Crosstown was NYCO #17; today it is MABSTOA M79. Both routes use the 60 foot articulated buses.
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andy47,

The photo is great - one of the best I've ever found!

I wouldn't dispute what you say except for the fact that Green Bus Lines was the operator of the 79th. Street Crosstown from 1933 until NYCO's takeover in 1936 and the route # was the M4 which, in later years, was changed to the M79.

The partial chart below shows all of Green's Manhattan operations and who inherited them when they left for Queens.

M1 to M22 Madison-Chambers X Green/Comprehensive --
M2 -- Spring-Delancey X Green/NYC Omnibus --
M3 to M50 49th-50th Sts X Green/Comprehensive --
-- M27 49th-50th Sts X Green/Comprehensive --
M4 to M79 79th St X Green/NYC Omnibus --
M5 to M86 86th St X Green/NYC Omnibus NY & Harlem
M6 to M19 96th St X Green/NYC Omnibus --

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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andy47




Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Posts: 96
Location: New York State

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: NYC Omnibus Route #s Reply with quote

Mr. L, you are right about the designation M4 for the 79th Xtown route. The problem was that NYC Omnibus routes were assigned "official" (M-##) route numbers by the NYC Franchise Bureau, but never displayed these numbers on the route sign curtains or route maps. So 79th Xtown was M17 on the route sign curtains, later changing to M79 (see below).

NYC Omnibus and sister 5th Ave. Coach used duplicative public numeric route #s for both networks that ranged from 1 to 20 (FACO) and 1 to 22 plus TB (NYCO). As another example NYCO's route # 10 (8th Ave-Cent Park West) was officially M41 but this number was never used publicly. The NYCO #3 and #4 routes operated along Lexington Ave., parallel to FACO's #3 and #4 on Fifth Ave. Somehow the public never seemed to confuse the route #s.

Surface Transit and NYC Transit routes did use the M### scheme on the route signs, thus M104 was always the Broadway route and M15 was the 1st and 2nd Ave. route, for example.

In 1974 MABSTOA and NYCTA ended all duplicative Manhattan route numbers and rechristened many routes. So for example, M15 was restricted to the 1st and 2nd Ave. route. The #15 23rd St. Xtown became M26; the Fifth Ave.-Jackson Heights line became M32.

And later those numbers changed again so that crosstown routes took the same number as their principal street, so M26 became M23. M32 was recast as Q32 to reflect the borough where the majority of mileage occurs.

And the numbers will no doubt change again as routes change and combine.
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a look into the really distant past as we see the interior of a Fifth Avenue Coach Company Garage located at 57-65 East 88th. Street on the upper east side of Manhattan,

The buses in this early twenties shot were hand made two man open topped double deckers built by the company on their own chassis between 1917 and 1924.

Fifth Avenue had a number of facilities in the borough with most being leased and 88th. Street being owned by a lady by the name of Margaret L. V. Shepard who collected the tidy sum of $4,471.47 at the beginning of each month (a nice piece of change at the time!).

Note that smoking rules were strictly enforced in those days what with all the gasoline that must have been around this shop.

Photo courtesy of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taken by photographer and eBay transportation memorabilia vendor Starfoxteam in early spring of 1993, we see fleet # 8371 - a 1990 TMC RTS Model T8O-206 and one of almost 1,000 built by the Motor Coach Industries affiliate for New York City between 1987 and 1994.

# 8371, displaying a 'Not In Service' sign, makes its way through the intersection of 89th. Avenue and Merrick Boulevard not far from the Jamaica Bus Terminal in Jamaica, Queens.

The RTS (Rapid Transit Series) was the last in a string of 'Broadway Smash Hits' for GM's Truck and Coach Division and the end of that company's dominance in North American transit bus manufacture.

However, while it sold its rights to the RTS design to TMC in 1987, it did continue as a contractor providing the shells for these most popular buses.

NovaBus was next in line to continue the RTS legend and did so between 1993 and the mid 2000's when, for all intents and purposes, the RTS era came to an end.

As an ardent admirer of GM's buses, I've always wondered what the transportation scene would now have been like had their 'Juggernaut' continued to roll! - I guess we'll never know!

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I have previously spotlighted the attachment in another thread some time back, I couldn't resist sharing with you this very rare factory pose taken at Pontiac, Michigan in early spring of 1949.

Seen ready for delivery but yet to have roll signs installed is fleet # 2501 - a 1949 GM Coach Model TDH 5102 (ser# 001) and built as a demonstrator but immediately snapped up during its first trial by New York's Fifth Avenue Coach Company.

The Model 5102 is virtually an exact duplicate of the 40 foot long 96 inch wide Model 5101 of which four hundred were built exclusively for New York City to their specification with the only difference being that the 5102 was of standard GM stock.

The 5102 is easily distinguishable from later 5100 models by the location of its rear axle which is directly below the first set of passenger windows aft of the rear door - in later versions the axle was moved to a point between the two sets of rear windows reducing overhang by about eighteen inches.

# 2501 - the only 5102 ever built - spent most of its useful life on Fifth Avenue's #15 line between Manhattan and Jackson Heights in Queens.

Thanks go to my good friend Bruce K. of eBay for this wonderful find.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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frankie



Age: 77
Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 745
Location: St. Peters, Mo.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr L.: I'm not too clear what is meant by the 5102 being a standard GM stock. The way I interpret this is that the 5102 was meant to be a production model as opposed to a special order model like the 5101's. Obviously, there were no takers as all 5100 series afterward were 102" wide (except for suburbans).

BTW, my understanding is that this single 5102 had manual transmission.

Do you know if this bus had the same 248" wheelbase as the 5101? As a side note, I've read that the 5101 had the same wheelbase as the TDH-4510 - which is not true. The 4510's (and 4511's) all had 239" wheelbases. All subsequent 5100 series buses has 282" wheelbases.

Frankie
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankie,

I'll try to respond to your comments in the order in which they appeared in your post;

The 5102 was a production demonstrator and was so by virtue of the fact that it was not built specifically to one operators specification such as the 5101 was.

Not all subsequent 5100 series GM's were 102 inches wide - the 5104 (built principally for New York operators) and the 5106 built for general sales were both 96 inches wide.

Actually, the only 40 foot 102 inch wide buses built by GM were the 5103 and the best selling 5105.

The Ohio records are contradictory in saying that the TD'H' 5102 was mechanical - the 5102 was hydraulic - Believe me when I tell you that Fifth Avenue wouldn't have bought it in 1949 if it weren't! (BTW: we have tried to have Ohio correct that error to no avail).

Wheelbases are as follows; 4510 238 & 3/4, 5101 and 5102 247 & 15/16th., 5103, 5104, 5105 and 5106 281 & 3/4.

The wheelbase for the 4510 was the same for the 4509, 4511 and 4512.

I hope that this helps to straighten out the information.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'
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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seen on Manhattan's then Sixth Avenue sometime in the cooler part of 1937 is fleet # 721 - a 1935 Yellow Coach Model 728 and one of two hundred and sixty eight numbered between 501 and 768 operating for the New York City Omnibus Corporation division of the Chicago based Omnibus Corporation.

1156 of the 32 passenger 184 inch wheelbase 728's were built between 1935 and 1939 and were among the first heavy duty 'city transits' from Yellow featuring a new and brighter interior lighting system, springless foam rubber seat cushions, a forced air ventilation system (as mandated by New York) and greater aisle and seat room.

Both Omnibus drivers and passengers liked the well built and comfortable 728's which helped to carry the fledgling company through the war years and well into the early fifties.

Of note is the yet to be dismantled Sixth Avenue Elevator Line.

BTW; if I knew which side of Sixth Avenue Bradley's Wines and Liquors was on, I could tell you which way # 721 was heading.

Photo courtesy of the Motor Bus Society.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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Mr. Linsky
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what must be one of the least known private operators that plied the streets of New York City back when;

Pictured below is fleet # 51 - a 1946 Mack Model C-41-GT and one of five numbered 50 to 54 operating for the Reservoir Bus Lines, Inc. of The Bronx.

Reservoir goes back to at least the end of 1934 and was officially incorporated by the Rukin family in 1940.

The company ran house-bus service in the west Bronx (and perhaps other places) and all of which being suspended during WW II with various Surface Transportation System lines extended to replace them.

Reservoir continued afterward in school and contract work and was always associated with Fordham Transit Company also of the Bronx.

Photo courtesy of the Mack Truck Museum
Info thanks to Eli Bail of the Motor Bus Society.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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N4 Jamaica




Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 858
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the Reservoir Bus Lines photo. For a major treat of our postwar summers, Mom would bring us to Valentine Avenue to board the black-and-white buses of Fordham Transit or Reservoir and then bounce our way up Boston Road to Playland, Rye. If memory is correct, Tuesday was fireworks night, capping a day on the various milder rides. Someone explained that Playland took a count of arriving passengers and required the bus company to take everyone home, stranding no one. Mom recounted that, during the thirties, the bus company would hire women to board the bus at Valentine Avenue, then say, "I need a cup of coffee, I'll take the next bus" to entice aboard Depression Era customers wary of being the first or only passengers.
----
At present, Bee Line routes 60 and 61 have Fordham Road and Tiebout Avenue their starting point, and the routes through New Rochelle and Larchmont have wandered off U.S. 1. Again, the county has lost money on Playland. Sixty years have passed. Your Metrocard provides a free transfer from the Concourse subway.
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Mr. Linsky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2007
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Location: BRENTWOOD, CA. - WOODMERE, N.Y.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictured somewhere in Brooklyn in 1949 is fleet number 4899 - a 1949 GM Coach Model TDH 5101 and one of four hundred numbered between 4500 and 4899 delivered to the City of New York Board of Transportation between late 1948 and early 1949.

The 5101's were the first 40 foot transit buses to operate in New York State and were illegal except for the fact that the city usurped its authority under 'home rule' which superseded state law in order to allow their operation.

These 96 inch wide 51 passenger jobs featured double stream front doors and were among the first from GM with paired windows and an all new 'Hydraulic V' transmission.

#'s 4897, 4898 and the pictured 4899 of the group were experimental with all having double stream rear doors along with single seating on the curb side between the front and rear door on 4897, fluorescent interior lighting on 4898 and sliding standee and rear deck glasses ala Col. Bingham's C-50 Macks as is seen on 4899.

These high capacity buses were of great help in replacing the aging equipment of private operators in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island that were taken over by the city in the forties.

Photo with many thanks to my friend Bruce K. of eBay.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

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yc720_06



Age: 86
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 19
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:14 am    Post subject: Fifth Avenue Coach Company Garage Buses Reply with quote

Hi Mr "L",
The buses parked at the Fifth Avenue Coach Company Garage were a decade earlier than 1917. They were French De Dion Boutons of 1907 - 10 with either J G Brill or Fulton and Walker 34 seat bodies. The 'A' type chassis' of 1917 - 1921 were built at the 102nd Street building, had 47 seat bodies by Brill and were the first completely American designed and built buses in The Fifth Avenue fleet. As you can see in the photo the De Dions had 4 1/2 side windows but the larger 'A' type had 5 1/2.
Best regards.
Malcolm
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