BusTalk

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Here is another "Joisey" bus mystery that has puzzled me for ages......I doubt if we've discussed this here in the past, but, if we did, I think it is worth bringing up again.

In 1958, PSNJ took delivery of 22 TDM-5106 coaches (M500-M521).

These were of the type I've heard referred to as "semi-suburbans" (standee windows, single door, transit-style seating).

Note the large rectangular rear window, in place of the standard curved ones typical of the Old Looks.

Was this unique only to the 5106?

I also recall similiar coaches on the ORANGE & BLACK.

I have two photos that I took back in 1974, at the old BLUE & WHITE yard on Tonnelle Avenue in North Bergen; one is of coach #108.

This coach matches the one seen in the b/w photo seen in link below.

Standee windows, and the large rectangular rear window.

I was puzzled at the grill on the a/c unit being blocked off.

The other photo (no # visible on bus) is of a TDM, with the standard suburban-type windows, round GM windows at the rear, and roof-mounted a/c unit.

I'm guessing that these coaches MIGHT have either been ex-PSNJ or ORANGE & BLACK.

I remember the two aforementioned companies operating these type coaches long ago; I remember DE CAMP's 5108's having "smooth" roofs, with no a/c equipment mounted "up top".

As always, I truly appreciate any info......

John

See:

http://www.burlingtonreplicas.com/19gmtdpsecot.html

[Mr. Linsky]

John,

All of the few 'factory' air conditioned GM 5100's including those of New Jersey Public Service and Washington's DC Transit came equipped with the single rectangular rear window.

Shown below from a newspaper clipping is the first of a group of 67 TDH 5105's just delivered to Washington in the summer of 1958.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Mr. "L":

Thank you!

Certainly enjoyed seeing that vintage clipping!

Man, I have not seen one of these up here in at least 35 years.....GOOD LORD!!

They sure were handsome-looking coaches!

John

[timecruncher]

The PD4103 model highway coach used a similar rear window arrangement prior to the introduction of the 3-piece rear window on the PD4104 in the early fifties.

This looks an awful lot like the old "Henry J" - type window to me!

timecruncher

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Restored PSNJ TDM-5106 #K701:

http://www.ttmg.org/photos/tlogan/NJT_GMC_K701.jpg

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Question:

Was PSNJ the first company in the State to purchase new TDM's when they first went into production in the early 50's?

As the State's largest bus operator, it would indeed seem as though it would have; or, at the very least, one of the very first.

Thanks!

John

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Speaking of TDM's, here is a vintage NJ photo that has long puzzled me.

This is the old Caldwell Loop; here we see a PSNJ subway-surface streetcar on the #29, ready to begin its inbound run to Newark.

The loop was also a terminal point for De Camp's long-gone #22, which ran to Journal Square (Jersey City), and the coaches of the #144, which ran to Newark.

This trolley line (the #29) , the very last of PS's surface lines, was converted to bus in March of 1952.

Now......here's where the mystery begins.

Note the TDM on the right, and the leaves on the trees.

The trolley line went to bus in early '52, and, certainly, the trees would still be pretty bare at that time.

So, let's assume that this pic was taken in 1951, the previous year.

According to a tattered old copy of MOTOR COACH AGE that I have, showcasing the history of De Camp, the FIRST TDM's that were purchased by the company were 5108's in 1955.

This, of course, would have been three years AFTER the #29 car line was converted over to bus.

PSNJ aquired the first of thier TDM's in 1952; clearly, what we see in this pic is NOT a PS unit; PS buses did not start serving the Caldwell loop until the #29 streetcars were replaced by new 4509's, in March of 1952.

Perhaps this "mystery" bus was a demonstrator, leased to De Camp?

Any clues on this latest mystery?

Thanks once again......

John

http://www.davesrailpix.com/psct/htm/psct042.htm

[Mr. Linsky]

John,

I hope you don't mind but when I'm discussing a picture I like to see it in front of me.

If you're trying to say that the bus (right side of frame) is a 5108 forget it!

It's an early TDM 4509 and, with the signature directional signals, could well be NJPS.

BTW; the engine vent and the visible single sash are the give aways! on the model.

Hope that helps you.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[NEW YORK OMNIBUS 2629]

Mr. "L"

As I am never quite sure of copyright issues regarding on-line photos, I am a little hesitant to post a picture, prefering to post a link instead.

Though the pic is in b/w, the "tones" in the picture suggest a De Camp unit (after comparison with photos in the aforementioned copy of MCA), in no way was I going to jump to any concrete conclusions, only willing to hazard a guess.

At the time the PS subway-surface streetcars were serving the Caldwell loop, De Camp's #22 to JSQ was also operating from the location, as were the buses of the #144.

The "NEWARK-CALDWELL BUS LINES" was established by the Vanderhoof Brothers of West Orange, as a subsidiary to buy the #144 from De Camp.

Newer model GM's and older Whites were used on this line (in my issue of MCA, a BRILL C-44 is seen operating on the #144, about 1955).

Interestingly, about 1953, Vanderhoof began repainting its buses in an imitation of PS's famed two-tone gray, with blue striping.

As to the bus between the PS streetcar and the "mystery" coach, I figured on it bieng one of the coaches then used on the #22 run.

Again, YOU are the expert here, NOT me; all I can do is to look foward to you sharing your near-inexhaustiable reserves of knowledge with us!

Again, I thank you for your time and input......

John

* According to the DE CAMP roster in MOTOR COACH AGE, the company took delivery of TDH-4509's between 1949 and 1952.