BusTalk

[Mr. Linsky]

It looks as though our shutterbug was busy again along Sutphin Boulevard in Jamaica in the mid fifties where we see fleet number 4544 - a 1948 GM TDH 5101 and one of 400 specially built for the City of New York Board of Transportation.

Number 4544 is southeasterly bound along Sutphin approaching Jamaica Avenue and is probably on either the Q 43 (Jamaica - Lake Success via Hillside Avenue) or the Q 44 (Jamaica - Bronx) line (both of which inherited from North Shore Bus Company in 1947).

This picture also tells another whole story; whether it was budgetary problems or just plain willful neglect, New York's city buses were not kept up to snuff in the fifties as can be attested to by the condition of 4544.

In fact, the city's reputation among operators nationally was well known and mentioned many times in industry journals.

The irony here was their 'do as I say, and not as I do' attitude toward local private operators who were compelled by franchise to perform complete G.O.'s (general overhauls) every thirty-six months which included cosmetic repairs as well as total repainting inside and out.

Interestingly, Surface Transportation must have been granted a special dispensation because they sure got away with that rule!

The tables began to turn toward the late sixties when the PBL's could no longer afford the cosmetic maintenance that they enjoyed for so many years and the city's buses began to look better and better.

Today, New York City's equipment ranks among the best kept nationwide and that's something we should really be proud of.

Photo courtesy of eBay (and my agent HartBus).

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[N4 Jamaica]

Many thanks for posting the photo of 4544. I have attended some of the public bus forums that the Authority has held over the past ten or fifteen years. At one, I urged that the TA again purchase double-flow front doors, though I was aware that they might have to be a special order. The answer from a knowledgeable man on the dais was that it was structurally impossible to have a front platform long enough for double-flow doors.

[Mr. Linsky]

N4J,

I'd probably have to agree with the experts provided that the steps of the new buses are 'plastic' like the rest of the bodies!

However, if we're talking 'Artics' such as the NABI 60 BRT's that are used out here in Los Angeles, it becomes a little better picture because they have three doors making them probably more entry and egress friendly then the old 5101's.

I don't remember off hand but I'm assuming that New York's artics also have three doors so I guess that will have to do.

Thanks for the compliment on the photo.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[dsevil]

I rode NovaBus demonstrator 356-2 once when it was on loan to TARC. I don't know if its front door is wide enough to accommodate what you're talking about, but it's hella wide so larger wheelchairs can board easier.

[Mr. Linsky]

dsevil,

What N4J was talking about was the 'double stream' doors as shown on NYC's 4544 above which allowed for much faster entry or a combination of entering and exiting simultaneously.

I believe by ADA rules, all buses today must have at least one door wide enough to accommodate wheel chairs and the ramp equipment that is needed to go with it.

This afternoon, I was out on Wilshire Boulevard in Santa Monica near where I live and noticed that all three doors on the LACMTA NABI 60 BRT are very wide and it wouldn't surprise me if they were as wide as the double stream on 4544.

Regards,

Mr. 'L'

[Mr. Linsky]

According to the caption that accompanied the attached 1953 image, we see what is commonly called 'The Bronx Hub' or the intersection of East 149th. Street, 3rd. Avenue, Melrose Avenue, Westchester Avenue and, finally, Willis Avenue! (can you just imagine what would have happened if the traffic lights broke down?!).

In this mid day photo we espy a lone De Soto 'SkyView' cab stage right and what appears to be either a TD 4506 or TDH 4507 operating for Surface Transportation System peeking out at us from under what I assume to be the Third Avenue El. (I'm going to let the pundits make the final decision on the model of the bus because it's too difficult for me to discern from the distance and enhancement doesn't help.

Enjoy.

Photo borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[N4 Jamaica]

Thanks for posting the remarkable photo looking south on Melrose Avenue towards East 149th Street. Melrose Avenue is now one-way southbound here, so the 1100 facing us on Bx41 (Webster & White Plains) could not come up this hill today. Rather, it loads to the left, on Third Avenue, then uses East 152nd Street to reach Melrose Avenue northbound.
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The photo is also remarkable for the kiosk. I did not visit The Hub in 1953, but I thought that Interborough kiosks were removed earlier. Prior to 1955, people had two East Side routes south from here (the el and the Lexington Avenue subway) and one West Side route (Seventh Avenue subway).
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Several months ago, when I tried to get off the subway here, police instructed the crew to keep the doors closed and bring us all to the next station, Jackson Avenue. I returned by Westchester Avenue bus and discovered that the entire intersection was closed due to an unexplained emergency. It was a tremendous back-up of traffic east-west and north-south.
Joe

[Mr. Linsky]

While Hempstead Bus Corporation of Mineola, New York served mostly New York City adjacent south and central Nassau County including Hempstead, Freeport, Garden City, Hicksville and Levittown it did have feeder rights to Jamaica which give it validity as a bygone city operator.

Despite the fact that history shows that most of the company's lines were off shoots of the New York and Long Island Traction Company with roots back as far as the late twenties, I find nothing in the prewar record as far as rubber tire equipment,

However, the top picture below taken in 1948 at a Uniondale facility shows eight just delivered Mack Model C-41-GT's numbered between 241 and 248 (note that some have been set for school bus operation).

In the center image we see fleet number 403 - a 1960 Mack Model C-47-DT and one of three including 401 and 402 delivered as demos and among the very last Mack buses ever built.

Note that while 403 is a single door with transit seating, it does feature suburban window configuration and was used with its sisters mainly for racetrack runs when either Roosevelt or Belmont were in season.

The lower photo shows an original Mack advertisement for Hempstead's C-45-DT's of which ten (261 to 270) were purchased in 1952.

Photos borrowed for educational purposes only.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Mr. Linsky]

It was mid summer 1938, the fare was 5 cents and the bus was fleet number 1042 - a 1938 White Model 788 and one of twenty (1031 to 1050) operating for the Triboro Coach Corporation of Jackson Heights, New York.

Here we see # 1042 wending its way through Jackson Heights to La Guardia Airport (as noted by the windshield placard) via 82nd. Street on the Q 33 line.

Notice the over sized pre-convention license plate which denotes 'O' for Omnibus and 'FB' for Franchised Bus

Founded in 1919 as Woodside-Astoria Transportation Company with a subsequent change in name to Triboro Coach Corporation in 1931, the company became a major zone player in north central Queens during the thirties with over a dozen routes including the eastern edge of Brooklyn and Rockaway Park.

A reversal in fortunes immediately after the war led to Triboro's purchase by Green Bus Lines in 1946.

Credit within photo.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Mr. Linsky]

In the upper frame taken sometime in spring 1947, we see fleet number 203 - a 1946 GM Model TD 4506 and one of ten (201 to 210) purchased by Green Bus Lines of Jamaica, New York and operating under the flag of their Manhattan and Queens Bus Corporation subsidiary.

# 203 is seen to have just passed Union Turnpike in Kew Gardens and is wending its way southeastward along Queens Boulevard on the Manhattan to South Jamaica Q 60 line for which it and its sister 200's were specifically assigned to.

As part of a thirty-five bus order with twenty-five numbered 901 to 925 flagged for the parent company, these buses represented Green Line's first GM products, first Diesels, first fully automatic transmissions and the first of 145 GM Old Looks bought between 1946 and 1959.

In the lower frame, also taken along Queens Boulevard heading to Jamaica, we see number 210 in a clearer pose.

Upper photo courtesy of Jay Rogers with the lower photo supplied by Dennis M. Linsky.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Mr. Linsky]

Attached is an interesting shot taken in the spring of 1939 at the New York World's Fair Bus Terminal on the perimeter of the grounds adjacent to 111th. Street in Flushing.

This was the point at which passengers arriving on special runs by a number of the city's franchised private bus lines would transfer to Greyhound trams for tours of the exposition.

Here we notice four Fifth Avenue Coach 'Queen Marys' awaiting tourists for the return trips to Manhattan.

While charter coaches, of which there were hundreds arriving each day, could make drop-offs and pick-ups at the terminal they were relegated to wait in special remote parking lots.

To the far left and far right of the frame you might espy a couple of single deck Model 740 FACCO's as well.

Photo courtesy of the NYPL Digital Gallery.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[Mr. Linsky]

I thought as a change of pace (and the fact that I can't find too many more vintage NY bus photos) I'd retrace some of the many trolley lines that dotted the city back when and which eventually turned into the bus routes we're so familiar with today.

You'll have to bear with me because I'm really not a trolley maven and, surprisingly, never studied them as I did the old buses.

It's back to my ancestral home in Kew Gardens where we see what I'm told is a car of Peter Witt manufacture trundling west northwest toward Brooklyn and about to pass 83rd. Avenue on Metropolitan Avenue following its route between 169th. Street in Jamaica and Williamburg.

What is today's Q 54 bus line began very early in the last century as a division of the Brooklyn Manhattan Transit Company (BMT) which then became Brooklyn and Queens Transit and was subsequently taken over by the city Board of Transportation in 1940.

The Metropolitan Avenue trolleys ran into the early fifties when they were replaced by the extra wide GM TDH 4510's.

As a youngster, my older brother and I would take the trolley from Kew Gardens to Jamaica for an orange drink and hot dog at Nedicks and then a double feature at the Valencia Theater - that was a lot of fun.

Photo courtesy of the Richmond Hill Historic Society.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[HwyHaulier]

Mr 'L' -

Great to see this old photo in Kew Gardens. Noted your disclaimer about trolleys...

Noted, "... a car of Peter Witt manufacture...". The "Peter Witt" plan remains somewhat misunderstood within the trolley devotee community.
It was all about a licensed, fare collection method. That is, enter front, pay fare when passing Conductor at car mid-point, adjacent center
door. It was more a fare collection method, and not a car design, per se.

A result, any number of car builders constructed units which were suited to Peter Witt fare collection. There were no "Peter Witt" built cars,
AFAIK. (There is a possibility that when he was in charge at Cleveland, he may have authorized "company build" of some units. I am not
familiar with Cleveland history, so can't say.)

.......................Vern...................

[Mr. Linsky]

I told you I didn't know much about trolley cars so forget that! - I'll just hobble along with my buses!

We find ourselves on Flushing Avenue in Brooklyn, the year is 1949 and the feature presentation at the Fox Alba is 'Come to the Stable' which could have been a great name for a porno if it hadn't have starred Loretta Young!

The bus is road number 1740 - a 1947 Twin Coach Model 44-S and one of 130 numbered in the 15, 17 and 1800's purchased by the City of New York Board of Transportation between 1947 and 1948 to augment a fleet of aging prewar Twins - these would be among the last Twins ever for the city which was in the throws of becoming an all GM Diesel customer.

While 1740 is unsigned, it is presumed to be operating the B-57 line (now the Q-57) between Maspeth Queens and Downtown Brooklyn via Flushing Avenue.

The Flushing Avenue Line, as it is referred to, had its beginnings in 1854 when it was opened by the Brooklyn City Railroad Company and had a succession of ownerships including the Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit Company and Brooklyn-Queens Transit before takeover by the city in 1940 with its final trolley runs in 1948 as can be seen in the lower photo of the same location in that year.

BTW; I don't know what kind of trolley it is but 'Give My Regards to Broadway' was a great movie!

Upper photo; eBay
Lower photo; Brooklyn Pix.

Mr. Linsky - Green Bus Lines, Inc., Jamaica, New York

[N4 Jamaica]

Cinema Treasures gives the address of the Alba as 750 Flushing Avenue, that is, immediately west of the Broadway el and currently across the street from the new and very busy Woodhull Hospital. Google Street view shows the arch of the former movie house within a pharmacy building. As for streetcar 4573, built in 1906, it currently runs at the Shore Line Museum at East Haven, Connecticut. Please scroll down at the link:
http://www.bera.org/collection.html.
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Flushing Avenue used to be a busy transit route because of the Navy Yard, but I see on the current Brooklyn map that it is listed with service every 15 or 20 minutes.
Joe McMahon